Torpedo reload times

[Sniper297]

Been playing careers with a modified Sargo for so long I forgot exactly what I modded (senility is fun sometimes) so when I started fiddling with S-boat careers it struck me the torpedo reloads seemed unusually slow. After poking around here and there I discovered that at some point in the past (when I was still under 60 and had a few brain cells left) I changed the torpedo reload time setting in the \Data\Submarine\NSS_Sargo\NSS_Sargo.sim file from the default 1.32 to 0.5.

Before finding that I had been fooling with the S-18 CFG and UPC files changing the ReloadingweaponCoef= 0.072 to other numbers, which has no effect that I can detect. At the bottom of the .sim file however is 10/11 wpn_SubTorpedoSys. Under rooms\fore (and aft for anything other than a sugar boat) is LoadTime=1.32. Note at the bottom says this is reload time in minutes, but they're using a different clock because I timed the reload with an average crew (with GQ set) at 8 minutes per tube. So whatever the number is multiply by 6 and it should come pretty close, so what's a good compromise reload time? Don't want to make it too fast or there would be no point even having realistic reload on, but at 8 minutes per tube you might as well not bother sounding GQ since most of the remaining targets will become impatient waiting for you to reload and steam off to find another sub to sink them. The 0.5 I had set on the Sargo (still don't remember when I did that or why) comes out to about 3 minutes per tube, which is way too fast. 5 minutes or 6 be more reasonable? 5 minutes would have 4 tubes reloaded in 20 minutes, as opposed to 32 minutes for the default setting, would 4 minutes be too fast, four tubes in 16 minutes? Opinions vary, so let's see if we can find the average opinion.

[Snarf]

One thing that I have found is that reload times are significantly shorter depending on if battle stations are called or not, since you have three times the crew working on it. Maybe if I get around to it i'll time the difference on that.

[Sniper297]

Right. GQ = General Quarters = same-same battle stations. The repeated tests timing 32-33 minutes to reload four tubes were with GQ set, crew at battle stations. Haven't tested without crew at GQ, no idea how much time that takes, and I never tried one of them superguys yet. I'm trying to find what the actual time was for reloading but google is worthless these days since you get zillions of hits that have nothing to do with the actual topic. My guess is it would have varied according to sub type as well, different kinds of reloading gear and space to work in would affect speed.

[merc4ulfate]

http://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/tubes/chap1.htm

While reading through the loading and firing procedures for the Mark 14 there was no mention of loading time but I'm still trying to find it as well. I searched for "loading time" "world war 2 submarine" and most of the hits google puts up are from subsim or ubi because search engines track your searches and sites and tries to steer you towards what you have wanted in the past.

I'm thinking about calling the folks over at the Battleship Park and see if any members might have the information about the Drum concerning loading times.

[Sniper297]

I'm used to misinformation on the internet, but this is no information at all. I'm GUESSING that it was slower than the U-boats, since the Germans had some high tech chutes/rollers/cranks to stuff their tubes, while Americans still used chain hoists and rope/pulley block&tackle powered by sweat&armstrong gruntworks.

But the consensus for dive times was Das Boot = 30 seconds, Yankee Doodle fleet boat = 60 seconds. Unless you read books written by actual submariners rather than journalists, all the real guys mention 3 to 5 minutes for the first dozen dives on sea trials while calculating compensation, after that it was drill drill drill until the 60 second dive was cut down to 30-35 seconds. No US fleet sub made it from the builder to Pearl without getting the standard time down to 35 seconds or less. But the 60 second myth persists and that's reflected in SH4. Changing that too, increased ballast flooding "liters per second" to at least double so a standard dive gets to periscope depth in less than 1 minute. Fiddling with the dive planes as well, still testing that.

For now I'm using 1.0 instead of 1.32 reload, that cuts the reload (WHILE AT GQ, AKA battle stations) from 8 minutes per tube to 6 minutes per tube. With an average crew of rated torpedomen, no supermen special abilities but no non-rated lubbers either.

[ETR3(SS)]

Well a lot of the problem with info regarding WWII subs is you have more das boot fan boys than fleet boat fans. Like you said this is reflected in SH4 and the fact that they made a u-boat expansion to increase sales.

But as far as your reload times go, I assume you're using realistic reloads? Uncheck that and measure the time then with the default 1.32.

Oh and if I remember correctly only the type 21 had the advanced loading system, rest of the boats used good 'ol manpower.

[Sniper297]

Can't find it now but I'm thinking of the scene in Das Boot where the journalist is shooting pictures of the torpedo loading and gets a greasy rag in the face. The loading gear they were using had one guy turning a hand crank to shove the fish into the tube, on US subs there was a line of men hauling on ropes.

Just checked with realistic reload off, you called it - normal underway watch 2 1/2 minutes, GQ set about a minute and a half to reload. Odd that unrealistic reload should be different depending on GQ or normal watch, but 1.32 is about right with GQ set. It does affect reload times for realistic reloads too, so there's probably some kind of standard multiplier used for both.

[TorpX]

Based on what I've read, SH4 reload times seem pretty realistic to me.

The inherent difficulty in reloading tubes is the main reason why the sub fleet wanted 6 tubes. Most of the time 4 would be plenty, but they knew that there might be times when you had either a large ship or two lesser ones, and needed more than 4.

[Sniper297]

Yeah, for me if I played realistically it would be pretty dull - 20 days cruising, 40 days patrolling, 2 days in actual contact, 3 to 5 1500 ton coastal freighters sunk in one patrol was worth a Navy Cross. I think it was one of the Microprose sub sims, Silent Service 1 or 2, where the task forces behaved more realistically steaming at 25 knots instead of 12, so it was a very rare piece of fantastic luck if you actually managed to get in front of one and fire off a few shots before they zigged off and you lost your chance. It was very realistic but I didn't like it, blowing stuff up is the whole point of playing games like this.

In real life once they got the failure problem more or less under control they wasted a lot of fish with the 10 tube subs - SOP was to fire 3 at each target, with one MOT and the other two deliberately aimed to miss ahead and behind. Theory behind that was if your estimates were off or he sped up, slowed down, or turned one of the ones aimed to miss would hit him. So pick three targets, fire 1 2 and 3 at one, 4 5 and 6 at another, then turn away and shoot 7 8 and 9 at a third, keeping 10 in reserve for a possible down the throat shot if an escort got careless. However, in real life they got SOME credit for damaging a ship that didn't sink, in SH4 you get nothing unless it actually is destroyed.

I'm currently reading SILENT RUNNING by James F Calvert, and he mentions several occasions where they reloaded tubes and got off more than 10 shots at the same convoy, so presumably it's possible to reload fast enough to do that. Again I just can't find any info on what was considered a standard speed for reloading.

THE CAINE MUTINY (book, not the movie) Willie Keith asks the Captain (before Queeg) what the standard time is for streaming sweep gear. The Captain replied "Book calls for an hour, the standard on this ship is 30 minutes but I've never been able to get these bums to do it in less than 37." Willie remarked that was a curious use of the word "standard", and I strongly suspect the average time for reloading tubes varied tremendously among WWII fleet boats depending on the training and skill of the crews doing the loading plus what the captain expected from them. Bosun, get your cat and rig the grating, I'm gonna have these lubbers flogged if they don't get that tube loaded in five minutes.

[captgeo]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197714

might want to search out the info that you are looking for from one of these sites listed in this thread

[Sniper297]

Already did that, no joy.