Has anyone done this?

[Majestik 909]

I never attack from more than 600 meters....

[woodenboat]

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission.

Right now, I can ONLY get any sort of success in this game with my aiming set on automatic. I've read the manual, watched all the tutorials on YouTube about how to do it manually and REALLY, the manual method looks genuinely fun. But I've had this sim for less than one week and I am just not getting it all yet. I Know that I will eventually learn it all and I will spend many hours getting lost in this great simulation. But until then, I am using automatic aiming in my career games. I am manually targeting ships in the quick missions and I'm dying and dying and dying... ad nauseum.

Early in one of my games I discovered the Q key quite by accident. I bumped the key inadvertently and then I saw what it did. Suddenly I realized why my boat was taking so darn long to fire off a torpedo. But no more now. However, I also got to thinking that it would only make sense that the torpedo door would need to be closed for the crew to reload. So, the next time they crew reloaded, I tried and Q key and sure enough, I opened the door. So remember that the door closes for reloading. And it does NOT tell you that it is closing. I'm gonna have to slap some of my crew members around for not keeping me in the loop - such as that one dude that's supposed to tell when I pass the thermocline but he doesn't.

Originally Posted by Majestik 909

I never attack from more than 600 meters....

Interesting... As the Mexicans would say: "Tu tienes huevos grandes, chico."

[Majestik 909]

Distance compounds error and affords a target time to see/hear a torpedo and take evasive action.

[Majestik 909]

Woodenboat - approach is everything. When I see a convoy, several miles away, I begin my set-up immediately. I try to approach at a 45 degree angle to the target, slightly ahead and I favor a starboard side attack to a port side attack if given the choice. I run surfaced at flank speed for as long as possible. Often approaching decks awash. I generally submerge at around 5,000 meters from target.

As you approach, keep adding rudder as needed to stay on an angular path to the target and keep closing up the distance.

By 1,000 meters (roughly the same unit as a yard) I already have chosen my target and plotted my initial solution. On tankers, I set depth at around 10 feet. On smaller vessels and destroyers 6 feet is my depth setting. I usually attack the first two ships in the convoy, then circle around and attack the remaining ships head-on.

Many would attack the last two ships first. However, I have found that by doing so, you are often out-paced by the remaining ships. Attacking the lead ships allows you to converge on an approaching target at a high rate of combined closing speed.

Many will try to set up a "ladder" style approach, shooting through a convoy, at multiple targets, as it passes by. I believe this method to yield a higher percentage of misses than manuvering and engaging from 400 meters.

Escorts will always come out to meet you if they detect you. My approach is the same for escorts as it is unescorted convoys only I will fire upon the lead escort from around 600 meters. If there are 4 destroyers or less, I will often sink all of them first and then prey on the unescorted vessels.

If msny destroyers are present, I will then generally penetrate the convoy and hang out around a slow moving freighter and use it as a shield will attacking other ships. For example, if a destroyer is on the port side, I will cross beneath and attack targets on the freighter's starboard side and the cross back beneath it.

Some of the American boats have acoustic torpedoes. If this is the case, then perhaps a rear approach on a similar bearing would give you good results.

Don't be afraid of escorts. Even with TMO they can still be destroyed with relative ease. As long as you have ship's afloat, you have a way to play hide and seek with them.

If you are in the open ocean, evading tactics are important to master. Depth and course changes are the key. Once contact is lost, destroyers will often go dead slow or dead stop to try and re-engage. Take advantage of a stationary escort. Approach at 1/3 and go for a broadside shot. Once they are moving, dead ahead or dead astern is a good method of killing them.

Additionally, be sure to watch your stern during an attack. I have had escorts circle around while I am on approach. I have sank many with a stern tube shot into the bow.

Circle around a stricken ship and be quick to attack any vessel approaching to effect a rescue.

I cannot stress enough to use other ship's as cover. Never take on an escort in open water if it is not absolutely necessary.

Playing peek-a-boo works.....

Good luck and good hunting - U-847

[Aktungbby]

Raptor82! & Fatbooboo!

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

So do most people use the manual targeting or automatic? I am trying the manual, and it is hard, and this is just the training mission. I send the bearing, range, ship type, estimated AOB, speed, then an updated bearing and range, and can't seem to get any hits, even on a broadside target inside 1000 yards with a spread of torpedos. Should I not update the bearing and range? Or is that what the Position Keeper is for, and should I turn that on before anything else?

If your using the ingame speed estimate it might be your problem. They tend to screw up the speed a lot. The speed of the destroyer in the training range is 10 knots if i remember well. You can also put a mark on the map where the target is then wait 1:37m and make another mark on him. If the distance between marks is 250y . multiply it by 2 and it becomes 500. well its 5 knots baby! also the aob is as the TARGET sees you and not as YOU see the target. That could be your problem too.

[woodenboat]

Originally Posted by dashyr

You can also put a mark on the map where the target is then wait 1:37m and make another mark on him. If the distance between marks is 250y . multiply it by 2 and it becomes 500. well its 5 knots baby! also the aob is as the TARGET sees you and not as YOU see the target. That could be your problem too.

THANK YOU! This is excellent information! Since I'm brand new, I still have not mastered manual aiming. So, I've been playing with automatic aiming just to get familiar with the other aspects of the game. But I have badly needed to have some sort of reasonable estimate of my opponent's speed. I mean... how else do you know where to position yourself for a clean shot? Up until now, I've been taking a SWAG at it and often i find myself spending way too much time chasing a target that turns out to be outrunning me. Very frustrating. (BTW, SWAG means "super wild ass guess.")

THEREFORE, looking at your 1:37m formula, let me ask if this would also work? Watching the target for 3:14m would tell us the speed without having to multiply by two - right? Or should I STILL multiply by two? So, if a target travels 1200 yards in 3 minutes and 14 seconds, he's going 12 knots. Am I correct on this? If I am correct, this means that, if I am underwater and my target is crossing my bow at 12 knots, I might just as well let him go and wait for a juicier target because I likely cannot put on enough speed to get ahead for a clean shot. In one game, I was chasing down a couple of potential targets without this knowledge. I found myself in an absolutely perfect targeting position .... FOR THEM TO SHOOT ME! It turned out to be a pair of destroyers and I did not survive. This was also before I learned to recognize between black sonar echos and blue sonar echos. You learn real fast when you're constantly getting killed. I think I should still multiply by two. 250 yards in 1:37 is the same is 500 yards in 3:14. Jeeze I really am NOT good with math.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by woodenboat

THANK YOU! This is excellent information! Since I'm brand new, I still have not mastered manual aiming. So, I've been playing with automatic aiming just to get familiar with the other aspects of the game. But I have badly needed to have some sort of reasonable estimate of my opponent's speed. I mean... how else do you know where to position yourself for a clean shot? Up until now, I've been taking a SWAG at it and often i find myself spending way too much time chasing a target that turns out to be outrunning me. Very frustrating. (BTW, SWAG means "super wild ass guess.")

THEREFORE, looking at your 1:37m formula, let me ask if this would also work? Watching the target for 3:14m would tell us the speed without having to multiply by two - right? Or should I STILL multiply by two? So, if a target travels 1200 yards in 3 minutes and 14 seconds, he's going 12 knots. Am I correct on this? If I am correct, this means that, if I am underwater and my target is crossing my bow at 12 knots, I might just as well let him go and wait for a juicier target because I likely cannot put on enough speed to get ahead for a clean shot. In one game, I was chasing down a couple of potential targets without this knowledge. I found myself in an absolutely perfect targeting position .... FOR THEM TO SHOOT ME! It turned out to be a pair of destroyers and I did not survive. This was also before I learned to recognize between black sonar echos and blue sonar echos. You learn real fast when you're constantly getting killed. I think I should still multiply by two. 250 yards in 1:37 is the same is 500 yards in 3:14. Jeeze I really am NOT good with math.

Those are the formulas for speed.
(Distance traveled in 3:14) x 10
1:37 x 20
From very close range I often just go for like 38s and do X40. As a rule of thumb. The longer you wait. The more precise it is.

Also when attacking convoy. BE VERY careful of your distance and speed. Escort can hear you way before they actually see you. Wich is why the most common strategy is to get ahead of them then wait close to their estimated course.

Don't try to catch up on them. Plan an interception course.

[dashyr]

This is an old video. But, it is a very good example of how to plan an attack when in an interception position. He also make use of the 3:14 technique. There is also an excellent written guide in the download section.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1647
This is a rather advanced guide using the ticks on the periscope. But, it is REALLY precise.


Personally I play Operation Monsun fully modded. So im on a uboat and use a too called RAOBF to calculate all from a visual contact. wich look like this


Looks intimidating. But I can calculate the speed/AOB/RANGE very quickly without ever using the map. The RAOBF do most calculation for you. If you prefer uboats to fleet boats. You should use this mod ASAP. It is great! The RAOBF is that weird ring device around the periscope.

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by dashyr

If your using the ingame speed estimate it might be your problem. They tend to screw up the speed a lot. The speed of the destroyer in the training range is 10 knots if i remember well. You can also put a mark on the map where the target is then wait 1:37m and make another mark on him. If the distance between marks is 250y . multiply it by 2 and it becomes 500. well its 5 knots baby! also the aob is as the TARGET sees you and not as YOU see the target. That could be your problem too.

Could be the speed issue, I think I understand the AOB part of it. Of course, my estimate may be way off. I take their angle to me and subtract that from 360 to get my angle to them. If I see them at my 330, I put the AOB at 30, and I think I factored in the Starboard vs Port side of it. But I did not know about the tubes opening, I am probably getting a number of mistakes on the attack. I don't get much time to work on it with college and work and everything, so it may take me a while to figure this out.
I guess I am also hurrying things because I am trying to sink him in the first pass. I could stand to work on my stalking techniques, if I remember right it is a Mogami-class cruiser, so it is not like he is listening for me. That will have to be when I get some time, I will try to become comfortable in torpedo attacks before I actually try to take out the convoy.

[dashyr]

Originally Posted by De Ruyter

Could be the speed issue, I think I understand the AOB part of it. Of course, my estimate may be way off. I take their angle to me and subtract that from 360 to get my angle to them. If I see them at my 330, I put the AOB at 30, and I think I factored in the Starboard vs Port side of it. But I did not know about the tubes opening, I am probably getting a number of mistakes on the attack. I don't get much time to work on it with college and work and everything, so it may take me a while to figure this out.
I guess I am also hurrying things because I am trying to sink him in the first pass. I could stand to work on my stalking techniques, if I remember right it is a Mogami-class cruiser, so it is not like he is listening for me. That will have to be when I get some time, I will try to become comfortable in torpedo attacks before I actually try to take out the convoy.

In fact you must do exactly what you do but from the target' POV. The AOB is from the target, not you. if you got a perfect 90 angle on a enemy as an example. Following your logic the AOB would be 0. But from the target it would be 90. the correct aob in this scenario is 90. Another example if youre right behind the target ship AOB isnt 0 but 180

AOB must be understood as being at wich angle you would see you sub in relation of the bow of the ship if you were one of the poor souls of the target ship.

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by dashyr

In fact you must do exactly what you do but from the target' POV. The AOB is from the target, not you. if you got a perfect 90 angle on a enemy as an example. Following your logic the AOB would be 0. But from the target it would be 90. the correct aob in this scenario is 90. Another example if youre right behind the target ship AOB isnt 0 but 180

AOB must be understood as being at wich angle you would see you sub in relation of the bow of the ship if you were one of the poor souls of the target ship.

Right, if the ship is dead ahead of me, I get that I would set AOB to 90. Perhaps my math logic does not hold. Perhaps in the 330 scenario, I should set AOB to 60. That actually seems like it would make more sense, subtract the difference from 90. I don't know, I will have to work out the trigonometry of it. That may only hold if we are approaching at right angles. Considering that I am studying engineering, trig should not be that much of an issue.

[dashyr]

To calculate the aob from the map its easy. Just draw the target couse then check the angle from its course to you. This is your AOB. But if you wish to be accurate from a visual only perspective. You have to use the ticks on the periscope. But thats more complex since you need to calculate the aspect ratio. But if you play with the map updates on, after taking the speed with the 1:37 method. Simply draw a line using those mark and you will have the cource.

You can hardly be more accurate than when using the map. especially with AOB.

[De Ruyter]

Originally Posted by dashyr

To calculate the aob from the map its easy. Just draw the target couse then check the angle from its course to you. This is your AOB. But if you wish to be accurate from a visual only perspective. You have to use the ticks on the periscope. But thats more complex since you need to calculate the aspect ratio. But if you play with the map updates on, after taking the speed with the 1:37 method. Simply draw a line using those mark and you will have the cource.

You can hardly be more accurate than when using the map. especially with AOB.

Now if I do that at the start with the position keeper on, if I calculate the AOB right off the bat with the map, the position keeper keeps track of the change in position, right? I don't want to be constantly going back to the map to do calculations as the position changes.

[Red Devil]

My point is to ignore any harbour photo recces. The game does not penalise you and they are a waste of time. Go to a locale nearby and go sinking the darn ships.

For reality sake, try them out but success is less than about 30%. And it also depends on level of difficulty. Either way, ignore them.