[REL] 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit - Page 5

Bubblehead1980 · 06-29-10, 04:26 PM

no no, not using your mod yet, waiting for the TMO version.

TMO 2.0 as released has a readout on the A scope itself and the readout only goes up to 10,000 yards.

Nisgeis · 06-29-10, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

no no, not using your mod yet, waiting for the TMO version.

TMO 2.0 as released has a readout on the A scope itself and the readout only goes up to 10,000 yards.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

Munchausen · 06-29-10, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

The problem is that TMO removes the "X" from the attack map so yuou don't get a complete plot.

It would be nice to have that "X" available on the navigation map so its location could be plotted via the pencil. But, at least there's the following:

Quote:

Oh yes, as Hitman suggested, if you send a radar range and optical bearing, wait a few minutes and send another radar range and optical bearing, you can use the extimate course and speed buton to get a target course and speed (which will be accurate to within one knot and one degree of your measurements). Then you can use the TDC to refine the solution.

That should work too.

Nisgeis · 07-03-10, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

The problem is that TMO removes the "X" from the attack map so yuou don't get a complete plot.

What I need to do is start a new patrol and pick up a contact at long range, run a radar plot to get his course and speed, then close to his track and finish him submerged using the Stadimeter (just like RL).

It may take a few days but I will get you some screenshot (if I can figure out how to post them here).

JCC

How are you getting along with it? Don't forget you can use the radar to calibrate the stadimeter for perfect mast height, regardless of the target.

Anyone else got any feedback?

John Channing · 07-03-10, 01:33 PM

Real life has been getting in the way. I hope to take it out for a real shakedown later today. If so I will let you know.

But from what I have seen so far anyone who is playing SH4 without this mod is missing out on about half of the realism they could be enjoying.

Outstanding.

JCC

Bubblehead1980 · 07-03-10, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

Real life has been getting in the way. I hope to take it out for a real shakedown later today. If so I will let you know.

But from what I have seen so far anyone who is playing SH4 without this mod is missing out on about half of the realism they could be enjoying.

Outstanding.

JCC

Just awaiting the TMO version then it's time for some serious training.

John Channing · 07-03-10, 06:42 PM

So here is a little preliminary feedback.

THIS IS REALY HARD!

I decided to keep the training wheels on for the moment so I am continuing my current patrol with map updates still on.

I picked up a radar contact at 12Kyds and began the plot. The problem is that the radar wouldn't hold the contact because of bad weather conditions so each time I got back to the A Scope from the map the contact had vanished. This was aggravated by the old bug where the radar won't stay in focus mode when you leave the radar station screen so each time I went to the map I would lose the contact again.

Eventually I was able to close him enough to hold a steady contact and, from there I was able to plot his course sufficiently well that I can see myself being able to do it without map contacts on. The problem is that it is really hard to get a spot on bearing as the radar signal covers about 7-10 degrees, and at 12Kyds, that is a considerable margin of error. Knowing where, exactly, to position the sweep is going to be key in getting an accurate solution.

The most fun I have had with SH4 in some time. Anyone who calls themselves a Grognard should be using this.

If the radar would stay in focus mode it would lighten the work load considerably. Perhaps this was fixed in later versions of TMO? I am using 1.5.

JCC

Nisgeis · 07-04-10, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

The problem is that the radar wouldn't hold the contact because of bad weather conditions so each time I got back to the A Scope from the map the contact had vanished. This was aggravated by the old bug where the radar won't stay in focus mode when you leave the radar station screen so each time I went to the map I would lose the contact again.

Yep, the radar is modelled so that if a wave comes between you and the target, then you won't be able to see the target anymore, which is accurate. The focus mode thing is annoying, but the best way to get around it is to simply turn the radar off when you move away from the station. When you return it will be where you left it. This works pretty well and also reduces your chances of being detected by any RWR equipped escorts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

Eventually I was able to close him enough to hold a steady contact and, from there I was able to plot his course sufficiently well that I can see myself being able to do it without map contacts on. The problem is that it is really hard to get a spot on bearing as the radar signal covers about 7-10 degrees, and at 12Kyds, that is a considerable margin of error. Knowing where, exactly, to position the sweep is going to be key in getting an accurate solution.

The easiest and most accurate results will come from radar range and optical bearings. If you can't see the target, then you're well into the realms of advanced radar usage here. When I get some time I'll do a 'pipology' tutorial on how to use the radar to identify targets and sort them all out, but for now this will do.

The radar is set up so that the radar beam is emitted from the radar bearing through an arc to the right side with a width of whatever the radar beam is. If in TMO the radar beam is set to be 7 degrees wide (I don't know if it is) then the radar will detect a target that is at 90 degree relative bearing to you, when the radar is at 90 degrees and all the way through to 97 degrees. So, to get a radar bearing, sweep over the target, until the pip disappears and then step anti-clockwise with the mouse wheel until you re-acquire the pip and that's the bearing of the target. In bad weather, this is more difficult if the pip is disappearing of its own accord, but this is one of the problems of using a radar and why they couldn't get an instant range and bearing for distant targets and why optical bearings were much better. Once you get into tracking multiple targets are long range, then that's where things really do get interesting, as the targets merge into one pip, if they have similar range and bearing. That's when you can get an appreciation for what skill using the radar required. You can also get a rough idea of the bearing by putting the trace line directly through the pip on the PPI scope.

Bubblehead1980 · 07-04-10, 05:08 PM

Reading this makes me want to use this mod even more.

John Channing · 07-04-10, 06:45 PM

Then this should drive you over the edge.

I picked up a radar contact at about 12Kyds. Got an initial range an bearing on him and started the plot. Waited about 5 minutes and got a second range and bearing , plotted it, drew an intersection between it and the first one and had his course (these are the first two marks below). The I took range and bearing every few minutes and, using the protractor and the ruler, got his track down cold.

Now I am still running with Map Updates on so I was able to check the results with reality and at longer ranges it was spot on. I was able to plot his course within a few hundred feet!

As he got closer the error rate increased (probably due to my inexperience with it) but I was still able to plot his track by lining up his estimated course between my bearing marks that were, in actuality, off his track in either direction by a few hundred yards either way. By the time he came into visual range I was out of position for a good attack (mainly because I had been concentrating on the plot) but with a litttle more practice I will be able to conduct an attack exactly the way I have wanted to since this was in Beta!

Now I have seen a couple of radar plots from WWII subs and, you know what? They looked a lot like this...

This was a great experience! I am heading back to Midway for a re-fit and then back on patrol with Map Contacts off. Nisgeis... take a Gold Star out of petty cash!

Next... learning to use the 3-D TDC!

JCC

Bubblehead1980 · 07-04-10, 10:49 PM

yep, just drove me off the cliff lol man i cant wait

Runnybabbit · 07-05-10, 01:24 AM

Hi,

Just downloaded, and will give this some serious time this week, thanks sincerely for going to all this trouble!

Now, if Ubisoft had such dedication to the finished product, just imagine...

Lionfish298 · 07-05-10, 12:33 PM

*gnashes teeth*

This makes me want to disable TMO so I can use this.

John Channing · 07-05-10, 02:02 PM

You don't have to disable TMO. I am running it (currently) with TMO 1.5 and have no problems at all. With later versions of TMO you will (apparently) lose some eye candy but let me tell you.... it's really worth it.

I have the radar to the point where I can set up a pretty accurate plot so now I am onto the TDC.

And it's a hoot!

JCC

reaper7 · 07-05-10, 05:44 PM

Wow was just browsing through the forums and came across this. Amazing stuff. Also after seeing your plotting JCC, (never got as far as Manual Plotting myself) I'm tempted to reinstall SH4 and TM2.0 with this and head back to the Paciffic for a while.

07-05-10, 01:24 AM	#72
Runnybabbit Seaman Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lancashire, England. Posts: 34 Downloads: 130 Uploads: 0	Hi, Just downloaded, and will give this some serious time this week, thanks sincerely for going to all this trouble! Now, if Ubisoft had such dedication to the finished product, just imagine... __________________ If there's one thing that mankind learns from history... it's that mankind never learns from history!

07-05-10, 12:33 PM	#73
Lionfish298 Seaman Join Date: May 2010 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 38 Downloads: 16 Uploads: 0	gnashes teeth This makes me want to disable TMO so I can use this. __________________ I'm the galloping ghost of the Japanese coast. You don't hear of me and my crew But just ask any man off the coast of Japan. If he knows of the Trigger Maru. ----------------------------------------- "Oh Lord, your Sea is so big, and my boat is so small."

06-29-10, 04:26 PM	#61
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	no no, not using your mod yet, waiting for the TMO version. TMO 2.0 as released has a readout on the A scope itself and the readout only goes up to 10,000 yards.

07-03-10, 01:33 PM	#65
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	Real life has been getting in the way. I hope to take it out for a real shakedown later today. If so I will let you know. But from what I have seen so far anyone who is playing SH4 without this mod is missing out on about half of the realism they could be enjoying. Outstanding. JCC

07-03-10, 06:42 PM	#67
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	So here is a little preliminary feedback. THIS IS REALY HARD! I decided to keep the training wheels on for the moment so I am continuing my current patrol with map updates still on. I picked up a radar contact at 12Kyds and began the plot. The problem is that the radar wouldn't hold the contact because of bad weather conditions so each time I got back to the A Scope from the map the contact had vanished. This was aggravated by the old bug where the radar won't stay in focus mode when you leave the radar station screen so each time I went to the map I would lose the contact again. Eventually I was able to close him enough to hold a steady contact and, from there I was able to plot his course sufficiently well that I can see myself being able to do it without map contacts on. The problem is that it is really hard to get a spot on bearing as the radar signal covers about 7-10 degrees, and at 12Kyds, that is a considerable margin of error. Knowing where, exactly, to position the sweep is going to be key in getting an accurate solution. The most fun I have had with SH4 in some time. Anyone who calls themselves a Grognard should be using this. If the radar would stay in focus mode it would lighten the work load considerably. Perhaps this was fixed in later versions of TMO? I am using 1.5. JCC

07-04-10, 05:08 PM	#69
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	Reading this makes me want to use this mod even more.

07-04-10, 06:45 PM	#70
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	Then this should drive you over the edge. I picked up a radar contact at about 12Kyds. Got an initial range an bearing on him and started the plot. Waited about 5 minutes and got a second range and bearing , plotted it, drew an intersection between it and the first one and had his course (these are the first two marks below). The I took range and bearing every few minutes and, using the protractor and the ruler, got his track down cold. Now I am still running with Map Updates on so I was able to check the results with reality and at longer ranges it was spot on. I was able to plot his course within a few hundred feet! As he got closer the error rate increased (probably due to my inexperience with it) but I was still able to plot his track by lining up his estimated course between my bearing marks that were, in actuality, off his track in either direction by a few hundred yards either way. By the time he came into visual range I was out of position for a good attack (mainly because I had been concentrating on the plot) but with a litttle more practice I will be able to conduct an attack exactly the way I have wanted to since this was in Beta! Now I have seen a couple of radar plots from WWII subs and, you know what? They looked a lot like this... This was a great experience! I am heading back to Midway for a re-fit and then back on patrol with Map Contacts off. Nisgeis... take a Gold Star out of petty cash! Next... learning to use the 3-D TDC! JCC

07-04-10, 10:49 PM	#71
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 6,922 Downloads: 550 Uploads: 42	yep, just drove me off the cliff lol man i cant wait

07-05-10, 02:02 PM	#74
John Channing Sea Lord Join Date: Sep 1998 Posts: 1,846 Downloads: 156 Uploads: 5	You don't have to disable TMO. I am running it (currently) with TMO 1.5 and have no problems at all. With later versions of TMO you will (apparently) lose some eye candy but let me tell you.... it's really worth it. I have the radar to the point where I can set up a pretty accurate plot so now I am onto the TDC. And it's a hoot! JCC

07-05-10, 05:44 PM	#75
reaper7 sim2reality Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: AM 82 Posts: 2,280 Downloads: 258 Uploads: 30	Wow was just browsing through the forums and came across this. Amazing stuff. Also after seeing your plotting JCC, (never got as far as Manual Plotting myself) I'm tempted to reinstall SH4 and TM2.0 with this and head back to the Paciffic for a while.