Flying the French flag in 1941

[Von Tonner]

Can anyone shed some light on my problem or am I just been stupid.

It is 21 Dec 1941 and I am lying on the surface west of Gibraltar. The watch calls out that they have sighted a ship a long way off. It is absolutely pitch black and there is no way I can ID it. As it is only 2 hours to daybreak I submerge and follow. My sonar guy then starts giving me reports on 4 contacts!!

I'm thinking great, I've hit the jackpot. At day break I put the scope up and a small tanker is leading a tramp steamer which is in turn leading a medium cargo. Following behind these three ducks in a row is an armed trawler looking like a lost orphan.

They are all flying the French flag. France was a enemy of Germany from 1939-1940. and then again from 1944-1945. So I have to take it that these ships are neutral given its now 1941.

If this was common practice for Germany to operate French ships under the French flag it must have been very confusing for all. What would a British sub commander do?

To follow my confusion through to the end I saved my game, reloaded and took the lead ship down. Yip...green sunk icon.

Is my stupidity getting in the way of logic here?

[Kapitän]

There were "Free" French and "Vichy" French and each had different flags ...

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by Kapitän

There were "Free" French and "Vichy" French and each had different flags ...

Yes, but these cargos were not flying those flags. They were flying the standard French national flag. That is what I found confusing, plus when I tested the consequence of sinking one I received a green icon which cannot be.

Just a thought. It would have been a very clever move by the Kriegsmarine to sail cargos under the standard French flag with instructions to all U-boat commanders to treat them as neutral. That would explain my green sunk icon.

As I say, it would confuse the British no end.

The Free French had the following cargos:

Félix Roussel
Fort Binger
Franche-Comté
Indochinois

If it was one of those I sunk I should have got a red icon plus the tonnage.

I am playing GWX will go and have a look in the manual see if I can find the answer there.

Interesting.

"From 11 November 1942 negotiations took place between Germany and Vichy France. The settlement was that Toulon should remain a "stronghold" under Vichy control and defended against the Allies and "French enemies of the government of the Marechal". Großadmiral Raeder, commander of the Kriegsmarine, believed that French Navy officers would fulfill their armistice duty not to let the ships fall in the hands of any foreign nation. Raeder was led to believe that the German aim was to use anti-British sentiment amongst the French sailors to have them side with the Italians, while Hitler was in fact preparing a forcible seizure of the fleet. Hitler's plan was to have German sailors capture the French ships and turn them over to Italy; German officers privy to this plan were critical of it, but their objections were ignored. Orders to implement the plan were given on 19 November."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttli...leet_in_Toulon

[BigWalleye]

From June 1940 through August 1944, France was officially ruled by the so-called Vichy government of General Petain. While closely controlled and thoroughly occupied by Germany, Vichy France was diplomatically an independent nation and was officially neutral throughout this period. The national ensign of Vichy France was the French tricolor. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vichy_France)

GWX and NYGM both indicate that vessels flying the French tricolor during this period are considered neutral. This is explicitly stated on the NYGM Flaggen chart, and implied on the GWX Flaggen chart and the Help screen. (These last two have a gap between two periods when France is actively Allied. That is how all neutral countries are designated on these charts. Only Axis and Allies are explicitly stated.)

When in doubt, it's a good idea to check the current status of any nation's vessels on the Flaggen chart. Pull down the FLAGGEN tab in the upper left corner of the periscope/UZO screens to view it.

[maillemaker]

Is there a way to get back flaggen when using Hitman Optics?

Steve