[REL] Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Mister_Spok

So I see. From you words I tink it was better chance for me to get Sargo?

And I'm well aware about S-boats range limitations but when I tried to accept the offer for Sargo-sub I noticed that it has no option to install SJ radar, and S-boat had it.

I've noticed that NOT being offered SJ (Surface Search) RADAR when upgrading to the next better sub is pretty standard. You will usually be offered SJ RADAR after your first patrol in your new sub. That probably simulates 'production problems' in the real world. Not real sure about that when upgrading from Gato to Balao. Balaos may come 'stock' with RADARs and upgraded SONAR capability since they were available much later in the war.

Also, in RL, early SJ RADAR was kind of 'funky' - subject to unreliability - which is NOT simulated in the game. Trained personnel was also a problem early in the war since RADAR was pretty new technology. The Radarman had not only be well trained in use, but able to 'fix' the new technology if problems occurred. RADAR 'A' school was at least six months, so a shortage of personnel was also a problem, and probably explains NOT getting the SJ RADAR upon upgrading.

The switch from S-Boat to Sargo would probably be a 'wise' choice on your part. Personnaly, I always make the switch. I love the S-Boat, but they were, in reality, very much obsolete when WWII broke out - most had been built in 1925 or before, and were 'never' developed as a true Fleet Boat. They were used in combat roles during the early part of the war because that's all we had that were operational. As soon as they could be replaced, they were, but maintained their use as training subs, and patrolling the Panama Canal until the end of the war.

God Bless Electric Boat!

[Mister_Spok]

Roger Dodger, mentioned about sampan fleet earlier in this topic. I would also like to know if it's possible to bring them back?

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by Mister_Spok

Roger Dodger, mentioned about sampan fleet earlier in this topic. I would also like to know if it's possible to bring them back?

I just started a new campaign. I had to upgrade TMO from 2.2 to 2.5 due to NOT getting a Deck Gun for my Gato-class boat. I also installed RSRDC and the RSRDC Pre-Pearl Harbor editions and some other 'RSRDC fixes'.

Mid-Patrol Report:
Departed Manila in S-27 on Dec. 1, 1941. Patrol Objective: Scouting, Luzon Strait south of Formosa.
Dec. 4: Spotted large freighter south of Formosa - Range 6500 yds, Course 270, Speed 8 kts. Shadowed freighter for 6 hours, no action.
Dec. 6: Patrol Lingayen Gulf - No contacts
Dec. 7: EXECUTE UNRESTRICTED SUBMARINE OPS VS JAPAN. Conduct Anti-Shipping ops along Japan-Luzon Straits-Singapore shipping lanes S of Okinawa.
Dec. 8: Sighted Hakusika Maru, 8178t, Action-Submerged, Daylight, Range 1200 yds. fired 3 torpedoes -1 miss, two hit for heavy damage. Fired 4th torpedo for hit and sinking. 128E/24N (S of Ryukyu Islands/Okinawa)
Dec. 10: Sighted Zinbu Maru, 5331t, Action-Surface Night, Range 6500 yds, increased speed to Flank, fired two torpedoes at extreme range of 3000 yds, neither reached target. Target spotted us at 2500 yds, and began evasion, opened up on us with small arms. Commenced Deck Gun action at 2000 yds. Fired two torpedoes at 1500 and 1200 yds - one hit for damage. Sank target with Deck Gun - 45 shells expended. 120E/28N (S of Kayushu main home island)
Dec. 16: Anti-Shipping ops along Japan-Luzon-Singapore shipping lanes, S of Okinawa.
Dec. 18: Sighted fleet of 6 Junks, 50t ea. Action-Surface Deck Gun. Sank all 6 Junks with gunfire - 110 shells expended. Close in-shore 124E/23N
Dec. 24: Returning Manila for refuel/rearm.
Dec. 28: Contact Report: N of Lingayen Gulf, two freighters escorted by three minesweepers, Range: 10,500 yds, Course 320, speed 11 kts., daylight. No action other than contact report - could not close to solution. 120N/17E.
Dec. 29: Refuel/Rearm Manila. Shift base to Surabaya, Java.
Dec. 31: Enroute Surabaya, Java - 122E/12N - W of Palawan, 13,989t total (Not bad for an S-Boat!).

Note the Dec. 18 report. A fleet of 6 Junks! So the Junks/Sampans/Fishing trawlers are there - I just wasn't close to them. They will be close inshore around the Japanese Home Islands and possessions. Perhaps I haven't seen any during other campaigns because my patrol areas usually didn't include those areas (Asiatic Fleet Ops).

I won't know for awhile yet if I get a Deck Gun for a Gato - I'm still in my S-Boat very early in the war. I don't expect to get a Gato for at least a year (game time). S-Boats were always equipped with a Deck Gun, but it got lost during upgrading.

Good Hunting

PS: Remembering the Officers and Men still on Eternal Patrol this Memorial Day. God Bless Electric Boat!

[Armistead]

Never had a problem getting a deckgun for a Gato playing 2.2, if fact that's what I play.

[stanger]

Roger Dodger, if you are playing with default TMO25 subs upgrade classes then you may never get a Gato, except if you will turn down a Gar.

With TMO25 its like this:
-from s-18\s-42\porpoise to gar\gato;
-from gar\gato to balao;
-from balao to tench;
-from tench to tambor(?).

So you will need to not accept a Gar and wait for Gato, if you want Gato. But there is no guarantee that the game will do that and not decide to jump to class 3, which is Balao (if the date will be right of course).

Stock settings are better: s-class > porpoise\salmon\sargo\tambor\gar > gato >balao (and then you mod tench as class 4).

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by stanger

Roger Dodger, if you are playing with default TMO25 subs upgrade classes then you may never get a Gato, except if you will turn down a Gar.

With TMO25 its like this:
-from s-18\s-42\porpoise to gar\gato;
-from gar\gato to balao;
-from balao to tench;
-from tench to tambor(?).

So you will need to not accept a Gar and wait for Gato, if you want Gato. But there is no guarantee that the game will do that and not decide to jump to class 3, which is Balao (if the date will be right of course).

Stock settings are better: s-class > porpoise\salmon\sargo\tambor\gar > gato >balao (and then you mod tench as class 4).

Not sure about what I'll get with TMO2.5. Usually (before) I'll start with an S-Boat, upgrade to a Porpoise, then to a Salmon/Sargo, finally to a Gato. I'll usually spend a year in a Gato before being offered a Balao. I've never been offered a Gar or Tambor.

Maybe I'm being rewarded for being an aggressive skipper The last Salmon I had during the Guadalcanal Campaign, got so beat up that I only did one patrol in it. I did sink a Heavy Cruiser and a DD against heavy odds, and limped back into port with 85% hull damage. Instead of being cashiered for unacceptable damage to my boat, I was rewarded a brand-new Gato.

Only time will tell on this one. Before starting my new campaign with TMO2.5, I deleted the 'My Documents\SH4' folder entirely. There shouldn't be any 'confusion' with previous games by doing that, something I suspect was causing problems with the Gato Deck Gun.

Good Hunting!

[stanger]

Yep, but this time you wont get a porpoise, because it is the same class sub as your S-class.
But anyway, it would be interesting to see if you will encounter that deck gun issue again and if its related to starting the campaign with s-class boat.

[Roger Dodger]

I finally found out where the problem with the deck gun was coming from

One at a time I, installed the various MODs - TMO2.5, then RSRDC and its patch, and tested each installation by running a new campaign (Asiatic Fleet in a Sargo-class boat) after each install. I always got a (forward mounted) deck gun. Then, I installed the RSRDC add-ons (Convoy Routes, Zero Bombload Fix, CD Sonar, TMO Visuals, and IJN Radar fix). So far, so good. Then I enabled the Crew Rank Fix for RSRDC, and Voila! No deck gun!

Checking the Submarine\NSS_Sargo.upc and the SaveGame file I found that this particular RSRDC fixer-upper overwrites the TMO .upc file with the older configuration, and just confuses hell out of the whole program. Ducimus added in the 'Crew Berthing' to Compartment 3, which changes numbers on all the succeeding compartments; RSRDC Crew Fix uses the old Compartment list. Ergo, this particular Fix is incompatible with TMO.

I haven't enabled the RSRDC Pre-Pearl Harbor Campaign yet, but I expect no problems with that one since it makes no changes to the Submarine.upc file - only to the campaign files.

I still have that pesky Crew Rating (personal) problem, i.e. the boat's crew already starts out with max Petty Officers/Officers, so nobody can rise in Rate/Rank over the next four years over SN (which is automatic in this program). In the Real World, most of the crew on a sub were Petty Officers, very few started out as a Seaman Recruit, unless they were 'busted' for some infraction. Just graduating from Boot Camp gave a rise in Rate to Seaman Apprentice (SA or E-2). 'Most' would go to an 'A' school for a specialty. 'A' schools were three months to a year, depending on the course. Graduates were usually at least Rated a Seaman Striker (SN or E-3), even a PO3 (E-4). THEN there was 'Submarine School' for several months at least, adding to Time in Grade, and appropriate rise in Rate (enlisted men get Rate, officers get Rank).

Reading the RSRDC.upc file, it seems that the only thing that was changed were the numbers of Petty Officers/Officers.

NSS_Sargo.upc from TMO:

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName= USS Sargo
Type=Sargo
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1939-01-16, 1946-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_N01.tga
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Salmon_Class_01.tga
MaxPettyOfficers=20 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 4
MaxOfficers=14 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 7

NSS_Sargo.upc from RSRDC Crew Fix:

[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Sargo
NameDisplayable=Sargo
UnitName= USS Sargo
Type=Sargo
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1939-01-16, 1946-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSSargo
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Sargo/NSS_Sargo_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Salmon_Class_01.tga
MaxPettyOfficers=48 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 4
MaxOfficers=11 ; max number of crewmembers over rank 7

If that is all there is to it, I 'should' only have to change the numbers (highlighted) in the TMO .upc files to get what I want (after disabling all MODS first, then re-enabling them).

[fred8615]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

So far, so good. Then I enabled the Crew Rank Fix for RSRDC, and Voila! No deck gun!

If you're using TMO & RSRDC together, then you shouldn't have installed my Crew Rank Fix mod. From the readme:

Crew Rank Fix ***8211; RSRDC - Use with the standalone Run Silent, Run Deep the Campaign mod.

There is no TMO version of my mod because TMO already changes the numbers, though not as much as my mod.

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by fred8615

If you're using TMO & RSRDC together, then you shouldn't have installed my Crew Rank Fix mod. From the readme:

Crew Rank Fix ***8211; RSRDC - Use with the standalone Run Silent, Run Deep the Campaign mod.

There is no TMO version of my mod because TMO already changes the numbers, though not as much as my mod.

As I used to tell my customers, "First, READ THE BOOK OF INSTRUCTIONS!"

I think your crew fix was made before TMO v2, where Ducimus added in the 'Crew Berthing' ('Hogan's Alley') to Compartment 3 which fouled up the compartment numbering after that. It took me awhile to figure out where the problem was coming from. The fix for me was one of the easiest I have attempted - just change the numbers in the TMO .upc files (for each class of sub), as per the 'readme'.

I'm still not sure if I like or hate the 'Crew Berthing' compartment. I've got 9 qualified men to spread around to empty slots (there are never enough available men 'in port' when starting a new campaign to completely crew the boat), but I'm left with an empty compartment that kind of scrunches up the 'Crew Maintenance' screen.

Anyway, thanx for the idea on how to increase crew levels. Much more Real World.

TMO + RSRDC - Don't leave port without them!

Good Hunting

[doulos05]

Originally Posted by Roger Dodger

I think your crew fix was made before TMO v2, where Ducimus added in the 'Crew Berthing' ('Hogan's Alley') to Compartment 3 which fouled up the compartment numbering after that. It took me awhile to figure out where the problem was coming from. The fix for me was one of the easiest I have attempted - just change the numbers in the TMO .upc files (for each class of sub), as per the 'readme'.

I'm still not sure if I like or hate the 'Crew Berthing' compartment. I've got 9 qualified men to spread around to empty slots (there are never enough available men 'in port' when starting a new campaign to completely crew the boat), but I'm left with an empty compartment that kind of scrunches up the 'Crew Maintenance' screen.

Anyway, thanx for the idea on how to increase crew levels. Much more Real World.

TMO + RSRDC - Don't leave port without them!

Good Hunting

What exactly does Crew Berthing do? Could I fill them with gunners or the DC team and move them around as needed, leaving the compartment empty at times?

[Roger Dodger]

Originally Posted by doulos05

What exactly does Crew Berthing do? Could I fill them with gunners or the DC team and move them around as needed, leaving the compartment empty at times?

I think that was Ducimus' idea. Men in that area are immune to battle damage (unless you get sunk). You may have noticed that when your deck gun gets destroyed by DCs, your deck gun crew gets wiped out as well.

For me, its a real hassle to move men from berthing to the deck gun (and keeping the correct order of the crew) as I might need them in a hurry. Same with Damage Control. There is an officer (3rd watch, Control Room?) that is a real expert with batteries. You are actually told (in the pop-up) that if you think this man might be injured, to move him to crew berthing for his safety.

Crew Berthing has its uses, but is usually just an empty compartment for me. I'm also not sure if men in Crew Berthing gain any 'experience' on patrols or if they are just considered 'ballast'.

[dhaalque]

it's july 1942and i return after 3rd patrol to my base Fremantle. on TMO2.5 with RSRDC+OTC. Last message I receive was patrol what you want or return to base. I'm out of torps so return and what? no option to end patrol in fremantle. Tried other bases in Australia - noone want me. I'm homeless and have to return to neverending patrol, like Davy Jones perhaps.....

[fitzcarraldo]

Originally Posted by dhaalque

it's july 1942and i return after 3rd patrol to my base Fremantle. on TMO2.5 with RSRDC+OTC. Last message I receive was patrol what you want or return to base. I'm out of torps so return and what? no option to end patrol in fremantle. Tried other bases in Australia - noone want me. I'm homeless and have to return to neverending patrol, like Davy Jones perhaps.....

Are you checked the last messages? I had those messages, but after that, I received a message with a new objective. The yellow objective star appears in the map, and you must go to the area.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

[torpedobait]

Originally Posted by fitzcarraldo

Are you checked the last messages? I had those messages, but after that, I received a message with a new objective. The yellow objective star appears in the map, and you must go to the area.

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

I think it is simpler than that. Look at your map. I bet the Fremantle icon no longer has a crooked anchor. Find the one that does. That is your new home port. Sometimes it changes and you either miss the message or it gets lost.