US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[ikalugin]

From a RAND study. Makes one wonder how long USA would be exporting security into Europe.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

From a RAND study. Makes one wonder how long USA would be exporting security into Europe.

WWII is over ... we won't be suckered into another useless war that uses tanks and two weeks to get there by sea ... the Air Force has a plan to deliver the goods, but only if it is a small unprotected country

[ikalugin]

What about, -gasps-, peer adversaries?

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

WWII is over ... we won't be suckered into another useless war that uses tanks and two weeks to get there by sea ... the Air Force has a plan to deliver the goods, but only if it is a small unprotected country

Back in the 1980s when I drove ski vans for the first time, in the summer we would take on any jobs that came our way. One day the Air Force was conducting operations at the old airfield at Wendover, Utah. For some reason or other their ground transport from Salt Lake Airport to Wendover ended up having to be used for some other purpose, and they hired two or three of our buses to transport the men and their bags, plus a van to carry the senior officers. I was driving the van, and I couldn't resist asking the man at the top: "So, when you have to go into another country for an emergency, is it the new procedure to fly into the nearest airport and hire local buses to get to your new base?"

He just grinned and said "Oh, you'd be surprised."

[Platapus]

Wendover? that brings back memories. I was out in that area 1982-84.

[vienna]

This is interesting, given Mueller has been notoriously tight-lipped about the investigation(s); it seems Barr's softball 4-page memo has raised the ire of Mueller:



Mueller complained that Barr’s letter did not capture ‘context’ of Trump probe --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.08580cb981f2



The Mueller Report -- with annotations:

The Mueller report, annotated --

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.b2737c4a2687










<O>

[Skybird]

Barr's opportunistically harmless comments certainly gave it a spin.

Stating things, quoting things out of context - how often has this practice been seen in this forum as well. I can understand Mueller's anger. I can understand him all too well. Its a very underhanded rhetoric cheat.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Barr's opportunistically harmless comments certainly gave it a spin.

Who's spinning what here and why?

What is really interesting here is just how disingenous the news media is. From the Washington Post article......

A day after Mueller sent his letter to Barr, the two men spoke by phone for about 15 minutes, according to law enforcement officials.

In that call, Mueller said he was concerned that media coverage of the obstruction investigation was misguided and creating public misunderstandings about the office’s work, according to Justice Department officials.

When Barr pressed Mueller on whether he thought Barr’s memo to Congress was inaccurate, Mueller said he did not but felt that the media coverage of it was misinterpreting the investigation, officials said.

“After the Attorney General received Special Counsel Mueller’s letter, he called him to discuss it,” a Justice Department spokeswoman said Tuesday evening. “In a cordial and professional conversation, the Special Counsel emphasized that nothing in the Attorney General’s March 24 letter was inaccurate or misleading. But, he expressed frustration over the lack of context and the resulting media coverage regarding the Special Counsel’s obstruction analysis.

So what we have here is a news organization, the Washington Post reporting on the fact that Mueller thought the media spin was 'misguided, misinterpreted, and inaccurate or misleading'. Almost for certain the WP was one of those media outlets. Talk about a lack of self awareness.

It is also no coincidence that this attempted smear of Barr comes on the day he is to testify before the Senate.

[Mr Quatro]

Sometimes I really wonder how many hard working voting Americans really care about the daily news squabbles the media hashes up.

[vienna]

For those who want to see the actual letter from Mueller to Barr/DOJ regarding the SC's office displeasure with Barr's memo summarizing the SC's Report, here is a link to the letter:


https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...er-to-Barr.pdf

As we stated in our meeting of March 5 and reiterated to the Department early in the afternoon of March 24, the introductions and executive summaries of our two-volume report accurately summarize this Office's work and conclusions. The summary letter the Department sent to Congress and released to the public late in the afternoon of March 24 did not fully capture the context, nature, and substance of this Office's work and conclusions. We communicated that concern to the Department on the morning of March 25. There is now public confusion about critical aspects of the results of our investigation. This threatens to undermine a central purpose for which the Department appointed the Special Counsel: to assure full public confidence in the outcome of the investigations. See Department of Justice, Press Release (May 17, 2017).


While we understand that the Department is reviewing the full report to determine what is appropriate for public release — a process that our Office is working with you to complete — that process need not delay release of the enclosed materials. Release at this time would alleviate the misunderstandings that have arisen and would answer congressional and public questions about the nature and outcome of our investigation. It would also accord with the standard for public release of notifications to Congress cited in your letter. See 28 C.F.R. § 609(c) ("the Attorney General may determine that public release" of congressional notifications "would be in the public interest").

Seems rather unambiguous to me...




















<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Seems rather unambiguous to me...

It is also now irrelevant.

[vienna]

Oh, I don't know about that...


Seems like the letter has tripped up Barr's story-line and made evident that he has lied and is lying, under oath, and has holes in his 'integrity' wider than Trump's rump; it also seems to have forced Barr to ground - he's apparently not going to honor his prior commitment to appear before a House committee tomorrow, Thursday; I guess he needs extra time to fabricate yet another version of his story, you know, to convince Congress, and the American voters, that he's not a Trump pawn now and has abdicated his position as the Nation's Attorney in favor of being yet another inept legal mouthpiece for the Idiot-In-Chief...

A shame, rally: Barr, until now, had a reputation as a fair and principled administrator; I wonder how many pieces of silver it took to betray Lady Justice?...

Justice may be blind, but it is not gullible...


It will be very interesting, come May 15th, when Mueller is expected to testify before Congress...









<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Seems like the letter has tripped up Barr's story-line and made evident that he has lied and is lying, under oath, and has holes in his 'integrity' wider than Trump's rump;

If that is the case then perhaps the Democrats should put up or shut up. Barr’s initial memo did not change one word of the Mueller report. That report is now public knowledge. It's not Barr's fault that the Democrats don't like the conclusions in the report. It is remarkable that over a period of two years or so they have gone from Russia! Russia! and calling the President a traitor to an argument over a summary of a report that was released in full. The show's over. Elvis has left the building.

“The job of the Justice Department is now over… the report is now in the hands of the American people. Everyone can decide for themselves. There’s an election in 18 months – that’s a very democratic process. But we’re out of it.”

-Attorney General William Barr

Democrats would be wise to heed that statement. The path that they are presently on is reckless and could be disastrous for them.

It will be very interesting, come May 15th, when Mueller is expected to testify before Congress...

Oh I agree. The Republican members of Congress are going to have a field day with Mueller.

I can hardly wait.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by u crank

If that is the case then perhaps the Democrats should put up or shut up. Barr’s initial memo did not change one word of the Mueller report. That report is now public knowledge. It's not Barr's fault that the Democrats don't like the conclusions in the report. It is remarkable that over a period of two years or so they have gone from Russia! Russia! and calling the President a traitor to an argument over a summary of a report that was released in full. The show's over. Elvis has left the building.

...

Democrats would be wise to heed that statement. The path that they are presently on is reckless and could be disastrous for them.

...

Oh, I agree, Barr's four-page memo did not change a word of the over 400 page SC's Report. What it did was try to couch the conclusions to fit the narrative Trump and his minions are desperate to foist on the voting public. As some have pointed out, the memo is reminiscent of those movie ads that quote reviewers: the original critique may have said "this film is awe-inspiring in its failings, a true monument to what bad film-making, and will be long remembered for its awfulness" ;what the ad for the film will quote is "awe-inspiring", "a true monument", and, "will be long remembered"; didn't change word, but the 'spin' is still toxic...

Dem arguing about the merits and many failings of Barr and his attempted whitewash job instead of the full report is not out of sense: Barr wrote that memo, not the report and the issue is Barr's intent, honesty, integrity, loyalty to the mandate of his office, and, perhaps ultimately, his fitness to continue as the "Nation's Attorney", all of which have nothing to do with the contents of the report; that will come when Mueller has his turn...


As far as the DEMs are concerned, I was also surprised when they didn't move to seriously start something like impeachment proceedings, at least until I came to think what the DEMs are doing is something the GOP is inept at executing: playing the long game. We all know the election is oming up, so why would the DEMs g for a quick strike and meager gains when they can let the GOP and Trump foul their own beds. We all know if anyone can find a way of making a good situation bad and a bad situation worse, its Trump; ably aided by his slapstick band of minions, they will very likely continue to shoot themselves in their asses, providing more fodder for the DEMs to use against Trump, and, if the GOP continues to cling to Trump, they will be painted by the same brush. Remember, in the House Mid-Terms, which are the best metric of the mood of the voters, Trump and the GOP got their collectives asses handed to them; also remember Trump's approval ratings have flat-lined over the course of his term and nothing either he or the GOP has done has moved the ratings appreciably upwards; also remember the disapproval ratings have grown; in fact, it would be expected the Mueller report and the Trump 'spin" of 'total exoneration would have given him a 'bounce' in his ratings; instead he took a small hit; and, on top of that, the percentage of voters who now believe Trump lies increased. The DEMs don't have to do any real heavy lifting: Trump, his minions, his Trumpettes and the GOP are doing all the work for the DEMs...

Originally Posted by u crank

...

Oh I agree. The Republican members of Congress are going to have a field day with Mueller.

I can hardly wait.

Mueller won't be as easy a 'get' as Barr. Mueller is tough old Ranger-trained, Marine officer and a smart, cool customer. I really doubt he'll be anything like the easily rattled Barr we saw today...

..and, as I suspect, he will have one major advantage over anyone who might want to raise doubts about the nature of the Report: I seriously doubt many of the GOP questioners will have actually read the Report (most likely have only been given a 'digest' by their staffs) and Mueller not only has read the Report, he basically wrote it, and, most likely, has more information and background that didn't make it to the final Report...


Me, I'd tread lightly if I wanted to question the knowledge of a guy who administered and wrote a 400+ document and all I had was the "cCiff Notes"...









<O>

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

Oh, I agree, Barr's four-page memo did not change a word of the over 400 page SC's Report. What it did was try to couch the conclusions to fit the narrative Trump and his minions are desperate to foist on the voting public.

This is the same kind of nonsense that Democrat polititians and the Left wing media are blabbering about. Are you suggesting that Barr wrote his conclusion with the belief that Mueller's report would not be released to the public? During his confirmation hearings Barr promised to release as much of the report as was legally possible. Amd that is exactly what he did with Mueller's help. The truth is that nothing will be good enough for these people. They are like spoiled children who are mad because the toy they got is not good enough. They're still mad that Hillary Clinton lost to a reality TV star. They're still mad that Brett Kavanaugh is on the Supreme Court and they are out of their mind crazy that Mueller couldn't give them what they thought they were going to get.

Too bad.

I watched most of the hearing live. It was a waste of time. Nothing we didn't already know was revealed. Despite the media spin, Barr handled himself very well.

Mueller on the other hand has not. First of all how did this letter get into the public sphere? Leakers gotta leak. It was Mueller not Barr who wanted to control the narrative. Mueller had his own summary which he wanted to get out to do just that. But the truth is that it was not Mueller's prerogative. He is not the AG, Barr is. The AG was having none of this political gamesmanship, which by the way reveals more about Mueller's motives than Barr's.

So what did exactly did Barr do that was so wrong? Apparently he didn't play Mueller's political game and Mueller got butt hurt over it. Barr has been accused of covering for Trump yet he released Mueller's report in full. It was something he did not have to do. What am I missing?

The bottom line here is that you, the Dems and the left wing MSM are mad at Barr when they should be mad and disappointed with Mueller. Mueller could not dispite his best effort find a single American to charge with conspiracy with Russia in regards to the 2016 election. The Rachel Maddows and Adam Schiffs of the world got your hopes up but alas no payoff.

DOJ guidlines don't allow for an inditement of a sitting President. But it was within Mueller's authority to recommend prosecution on obstruction of justice. But he did not. Why? Because he knew there was no case. Instead he used his position to smear Trump politically with his findings. When Barr instead issued a statement explaining that no prosecution would take place Mueller got his feelings hurt. AG Barr did exactly what the Attorney General is supposed to do: avoid smearing unprosecutable people for unspecified crimes. But that is exactly what Mueller did.

Mueller won't be as easy a 'get' as Barr. Mueller is tough old Ranger-trained, Marine officer and a smart, cool customer. I really doubt he'll be anything like the easily rattled Barr we saw today...

Oh I think you might be disappointed. Mueller has a lot to answer for. If and when he does take the stand it may be angry Democrats with the tough questions. They by the way they are the ones who insist that Mueller appear before Congress. Why? Is Mueller holding out? Of course not. They simply want more political theatre. And they will probably get it. The truth is hard to admit. Robert Mueller failed to do what so many had hoped he would do. And he knew he was going to fail probably long before he was done with his investigation. So he did the only other thing he could do to fullfil his mandate. Supply the impeachment crazy Dems and never Trumpers with material for impeachment. It is quite a system. If you can't do it legally you do it politically. Barr addressed this yesterday.

“We have to stop using the criminal justice process as a political weapon.”

That statement by Barr was aimed directly at these people. They will disregard it at their own peril. And make no mistake, there are people in the GOP who would be happy to play that game as well. Joe Biden is currently the Dem frontrunner for 2020. But Uncle Joe was in the Obama White House when all this shady stuff went down. Before 2020 Biden as the Dem candidate might find himself sitting in that same chair that Barr was in yesterday. You know what they say about karma....