Elder Scrolls V in the works - direct sequel to Oblivion

[Safe-Keeper]

Of course, this is also a game with magic plants, fire-resistant elves and summoned monsters, so I tend to take the call for realism with a very small 'r'.

Never understood this reasoning. It's like saying that since Battlefield 1942 take place in reality and doesn't have magic plants or summoned monsters, it must therefore be highly realistic and have very few arcade features.

"Acrobatics" was a silly name for the skill in question anyhow. Acrobatics is carwheels, somersaults, rolls, wall running, handstands, vaulting and other actual tricks you perform with your body, many of which would be tremendously helpful in combat (I've found that doing a simple forward roll can be an amazingly effective dodge method when playing tag).

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Of course I'm going to disagree about Fallout 3, but I have never been a Fallout 'purist'. I tend to put the game experience before canon, and in that regard, F3 shines. I loved the free-form sandbox play of the game, but I know that it turned a lot of people off. I really like New Vegas too, but one of the things that I don't like is the story-heavy play. I feel forced to pick a path and move down it. For example, from Goodsprings, I am forced to go south, as there are creatures to the north that are far too powerful for a new player to handle. This is intentional, designed to funnel the player into a series of plot devices. It is well done, but I still prefer being able to go where I want when I want to.

I agree with game experience before canon, but for me Fallout 3 was a downgrade from game experience when compared to Fallout 2 and it had a lot less freedom than Fallout 2 had not to mention a medicore story at best. A good RPG needs a good story and it needs to tell it well.

As to prefering turn based combat in RPG's that is purely because it leaves you more chanses for using non standard, and often hillarious, tactics. Anyway, realism and RPG's don't really mix well anyway since every time I have to shoot a person in the face, point blank, ten times and they shrug it off and it completely ruins any feel of "realism" in the game.

Now slightly back to Oblivion, the main problem with that game, other than the again poor story, was that ALL the content was scaled to your level, it didnt matter what level you were, the game did not get any more or less challenging, leveling up became completely meaningless, everything was allways within your power to defeat. I guess we just look for different things in these types of games.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

Never understood this reasoning. It's like saying that since Battlefield 1942 take place in reality and doesn't have magic plants or summoned monsters, it must therefore be highly realistic and have very few arcade features.

For me, it comes down to that the BF '42 takes place in a known environment. I know just about how high the average person can jump, and expect similar abilities to be present. TES takes place in an entirely different universe, complete with arcane abilities and a different set of physical laws. Perhaps in this universe one can jump incredibly high. But when placed in our native environment, yes I expect some adherence to basic physical laws, especially in the context of a historical conflict.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by antikristuseke

Now slightly back to Oblivion, the main problem with that game, other than the again poor story, was that ALL the content was scaled to your level, it didnt matter what level you were, the game did not get any more or less challenging, leveling up became completely meaningless, everything was allways within your power to defeat. I guess we just look for different things in these types of games.

I agree with that completely. The creature leveling must be fixed. It was to a degree in F3 and then a step further in NV, so I think that bodes well for TES V.

[Safe-Keeper]

The levelling system was incredibly annoying to me as it paid no attention to actual combat ability, only your present level. I had started a peaceful, non-combatant career as an alchymist, and while I had a very high level, I had next to no combat experience. Every monster encountered was death for me, and I ended up having to turn monster difficulty down to minimum just to stay alive.

Caravans, or at least some kind of escort from town to town, would be desirable, too. It makes no sense for you to have to travel unprotected from city to city in an environment as hostile as that of Oblivion. Just another way the game forces you to fight when you don't want to.

[Dowly]

There's plenty of mods that fix majority of the issues I've seen mentioned here.

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh yeah. I use a leveling fix when I play Oblivion. I just think that it is something that should be fixed in the vanilla version of the next game.

[antikristuseke]

Originally Posted by Dowly

There's plenty of mods that fix majority of the issues I've seen mentioned here.

Mods should be a bonus not a necessity. Though yes, with mods you can make an actual game out of Oblivion.

[Arclight]

I have to say I find some of the arguments rather illogical. You can't expect realism in a game unless it's a sim for example, be it Oblivion or Battlefield.

And this:

When I can essentially disappear to the point of being able to pick a pocket in the middle of the Imperial City in broad daylight, it may have gone too far.

How is that too far? It happens on a daily basis in real life.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Arclight

And this:
How is that too far? It happens on a daily basis in real life.

Let's put it this way: There are four of us; the mark, two Imperial Legion Guards and myself. I walk up to the mark, enter 'sneak mode', essentially disappear and pick the pocket of the mark no less than 20 feet away from the two guards. What the hell else would they be watching but the two of us? I should be caught red-handed.

Also, I do not think it illogical that in a game based on a real-world historical conflict, I should not be able to jump a single-story building in a single bound, simulator or not.

[Arclight]

Fair enough. Most of it strikes me as a lack of imagination though. I mean, it's a fantasy world and you're supposed to be some kind of hero or champion with supernatural abilities.

Being able to leap 10 feet straight into the air, or be capable of some remarkable feat of sleight of hand doesn't sound strange to me at all. At least not within that context.

[Safe-Keeper]

I have to say I find some of the arguments rather illogical. You can't expect realism in a game unless it's a sim for example, be it Oblivion or Battlefield.

What I find irrational is to say that "this idea happens to be realistic, and this is not a realistic game, so let's drop it". If we find that being able to jump five metres into the air is silly, or that you shouldn't be invisible in broad daylight in plain sight, that's our prerogative.

Or to put it another way, if you play another non-sim game (like, say, Assassin's Creed) where you can't jump three metres in the air, do you go "zounds, this is realism, change it now!"?

[NeonSamurai]

I think the point was that in a game where you can create fire out of thin air using magic, enhanced jumping ability with extensive training is no less unlikely (as I recall it took a lot of training/practice to be able to jump really high). Heck there are plenty of stories and legends (with some truth in it) of people being able to jump much higher than normal. One of the parts of shinobi training was jumping in a large vat of water, to increase their jumping ability and leg strength, plus look at what basketball players can do.

Furthermore a good pickpocket could easily do what you described Takeda irl. Also I do not remember being able to vanish in thin air in broad daylight in that game with out having extensive chameleon equipment or spells. The guards are probably just ignoring you as your target didn't notice the pickpocketing. See if they still ignore you if you killed your mark, that will clearly show if they can see you or not.

[Arclight]

Originally Posted by Safe-Keeper

What I find irrational is to say that "this idea happens to be realistic, and this is not a realistic game, so let's drop it". If we find that being able to jump five metres into the air is silly, or that you shouldn't be invisible in broad daylight in plain sight, that's our prerogative.

Or to put it another way, if you play another non-sim game (like, say, Assassin's Creed) where you can't jump three metres in the air, do you go "zounds, this is realism, change it now!"?

Not saying that at all. If you want to put some realism in a FPS or any other genre, go ahead. Just saying the player shouldn't expect realism unless it's a sim.


Anyway, it was an opinion and stated as such, not as fact. I perfectly understand where you're coming from, considering I have the same trouble to 'suspend disbelief' when it comes to most shooters and RTS games. Mobile artillery that barely outranges a tank while it should (realistically) shoot halfway across the map, for example, but it's something they do to to actually make a game playable.

[Safe-Keeper]

You raise decent points, I understand what you mean a bit better now. Still not convinced you have to have a sim to implement things such as compulsory eating, but at least now I see where you're coming from.

But more on topic, do we know anything about ES5 beyond the fact that it's a "Oblivion II"?