What Would Happen if Russia and America's Most Powerful Nuclear Subs Went to War?

[Onkel Neal]

What Would Happen if Russia and America's Most Powerful Nuclear Submarines Went to War?

The Virginia class is quieter and has a better sonar rig than its Russian opponent. In the world of submarine warfare, that’s an unbeatable combination. It can move and detect in ways that would give away Severodvinsk. One thing to be said for Severodvinsk is that it is more capable of quickly responding to a sudden target opportunity via her supersonic Klub ASW missiles. As for near term prospects, the usability of the Virginia’s sonar improves on a regular basis via software updates. Severodvinsk may not be able to update its sonar suite, and making the Russian submarines quieter may not be easily implemented. Overall, the edge has to be given to the Virginia class.
The United States Navy’s submarine force emerged from the Cold War as the undisputed masters of the undersea realm. The elite, all-nuclear submarine force watched as its Soviet submarine force rivals rusted away pierside, the newly founded Russian Federation unable to maintain them.

After more than twenty years of American submarine supremacy, a new challenger has arisen from the deep. Slightly familiar and almost two decades in the making, it’s an unusual challenge to U.S. naval superiority, but nevertheless one with a long, lethal pedigree. How does this new old upstart, Russia’s Yasen-class submarine, compare with the new backbone of the U.S. submarine force, the Virginia class?

Sounds like a new version of Sub Command is needed.

[Oberon]

Of course, the next question is how Skhval alters the balance, with the US currently unable to reply in kind. Of course, the Skhval needs a good solution to hit its target, so that comes down to sonar arrays again, although one could theorise a Russian submarine going active to get a solution and then throwing a Skhval at the American sub. The question would be whether the American sub could get a snapshot off on the bearing of the active ping before the Skhval smashes into it and whether that ADCAP would be able to get the Russian sub on its own without guidance from the American sub.

[Onkel Neal]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians have developed an improved Skval that can be set with a launch delay, giving the Russian sub time to clear the launch site.

[Commander Wallace]

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

You'd need a good reel to handle the wire going out at 347mph. The friction alone would be horrendous.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You'd need a good reel to handle the wire going out at 347mph. The friction alone would be horrendous.

That's a given and radical turns would probably induce depth and pitch problems as well.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

It's so fast your target is most likely still be loitering around your tracked location thus it is less likely to benefit from a wire guided system.

What subs need perhaps are anti-torpedo torpedoes and 'terminal homing jammer'.

[Rockstar]

If super cavitation torpedos are so badass why doesnt the U.S. develope and deploy its own? Other than using it to scare the tax payers to fork over more cash for Navy R&D projects I dont see what use the Russian Skhval is.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians have developed an improved Skval that can be set with a launch delay, giving the Russian sub time to clear the launch site.

That would make sense. Of course, the problem is target guidance, since I'm not sure how effective any form of sonar system on board the torpedo would be, and at the same time I highly doubt that it would be wire-guided, so it would have to have some form of terminal guidance. Laser perhaps?

I tell you, that torpedo has left a lasting impression on me after a Victor III threw one at me in SC. My poor sonar operator didn't even get to finish his torpedo in the water warning before I was hit. It's a powerful thing.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians have developed an improved Skval that can be set with a launch delay, giving the Russian sub time to clear the launch site.

As a game player and an arm chair admiral ... I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian submarine fleet stays close to home with any missiles that can go 4,000 nm or so. The boomers that is with at least one assigned ssn to guard her, even an old diesel could do that or the new submarine drones they will probably piggy back sooner than we will.

Plus I haven't done much research ... have y'all?

How does this tracking where a missile came from benefit the other side and how do they do that by satellite? Plus what weapon would they launch to the area it came from?

Most if not all nuclear warheads are designed to be air burst weapons. I know asw helio's aren't going to be anywhere near a launch. Giving the offending party time to cavitate out of that area at a high speed.

One sad thought though we may never know who is the best or who won the war. The only happy submarine crew will be the ones left alive.

[Rockstar]

Anyway in answer to the question"what would happen if..." Even though technology is always a factor it's unwise to measure a potential outcome of a battle on it alone. I really think its measured by the captain and his his crew's training, fighting doctrines and experience in using the technology available to them that will win the day.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

As a game player and an arm chair admiral ... I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian submarine fleet stays close to home with any missiles that can go 4,000 nm or so.

The Russians rely on close-to-home "boomer bastions" since higher ranges of SLBMs allow it. The Kara Sea is a prime example, since there is just a small chance for an enemy sub to breach it thanks to its geographic features.
Additionally, the waters are often shallow in the area, affecting sonar negatively.
Surface and air vessels are no issue either, since there is ice all year around (in the northern parts of the Kara sea at least). Perfect to hide a boomer and let it do its boomer things undisturbed whulezanothet nuclear friend is always close by, watching over it.
Of course, these bastions don't play a role in first-strike scenarios due to range.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

The boomers that is with at least one assigned ssn to guard her, even an old diesel could do that

Meh, I don't see any diesel guard a SSBN.
While range is no issue per-se, they can't follow under the ice and have to recharge batteries sooner or later with their noisy diesels, only alerting potential hunters in the area. They also can't do any high speed transits if necessary.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

One sad thought though we may never know who is the best or who won the war. The only happy submarine crew will be the ones left alive.

Sad thought?
Are you feeling depressed lately? Oo
One cannot win a nuclear war - which is why there never was one even in times of highest tensions, because all sides involved know it is a murder-suicide in best case.

I'd also doubt any sub crew surviving could be considered happy. The world just ceased to exist. Everyone they know and loved is now dead, or doomed to die very soon, along with most of human population. The "lucky" survivors sitting in a stupid self made bunker with a flat tv and canned food in Texas will make it a few months before they either run out of food, water or fuel and die either to that, or a self inflicted high velocity wound to the bead.
Those without shelter will see what nuclear winter means, for a while.

Yeah, yeah, that happy submarine crew! xD

Remember:
A strange game.
The only winning move is not to play.

[Oberon]

They also can use mines to protect the bastions, thus freeing up the SSNs for ASW and ASuW.