[REL] Run Silent, Run Deep - The Campaign

[donut]

Wanting To try RSRD,& using T_M_,this effort is escaping our modding skill,or ineptitude at merging RSRD, many conflicting portions of simular files. We realize your mod is aligned with RFB.,but IJN.ASW was historically less than USN due to equipt.tech.,& Installed on ships/warships priority. Elite Escorts were few.Hope you will consider coments for RSRD R/L

[Probex]

The game stops being fun when it becomes impossible to shake the escorts, thus ESC key and then the campaign un-install. I am not a 'noob' at this game either.

I will test the 1.02 version still.


S!

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by Probex

The game stops being fun when it becomes impossible to shake the escorts, thus ESC key and then the campaign un-install. I am not a 'noob' at this game either.

I will test the 1.02 version still.


S!

There are no "Killer" DD's in RSRDC by design, If your having a problems with escorts can you please give me a approximate time and place were you "can't escape" them

[Probex]

I will try if it happens again.

Thanks.

[tater]

This is where the supermods + campaigns start to get tricky.

My personal take is that while systematically IJN ASW was weak, I think it was more of a big picture problem (operational doctrine) than an individual unit capability issue. That said, there were certainly issues with ASW capability on a platform level. Their DCs early war, for example.

I tend to lean towards better than stock AI, but with an accurate campaign.

With accurate DC loads, the TM improved AI sensors are not that bad, since you can run them out of ammo (RSDS includes modded DCs). To the extent it makes skippers more careful, I think that alone increases realism. If you know the IJN ASW will just suck, and only a random lucky shot will ever sink you, I think you end up playing in a sloppy way. In RL I think that US boats were not lost in huge numbers partially because of poor jap ASW, but also because they were careful.

In addition, when you compare USN sub losses to IJN/KM you must not forget code breaking and sigint. They lost many more boats because of this. So when you compare ASW capability on the platform level, how do you use this information?

The KM lost a large % of their boats, the USN only something like 20%, right? What % of U-boats were lost because of sigint/ULTRA putting ASW assets on top of them?

Oddly, one thing I haven't explicitly looked at in RSRD are the AI skills. I assume that like my campaign they are variable---more variable than TM, actually.

My ideal sensor tweak would allow for the occasional "elite" without him being The Terminator™. In my campaign (unmodded by TM) I have "Competent" as a possible IJN skill level, with Veteran more common for escorts (because I thought stock AI was weak). Rarely there are Elites.

My personal take is that the campaigns should be written with a range of AI skills, and then if merging is desired, have the Automated Campaign Editor change them as needed.

That's really the easy part of TM-merging.


tater

[donut]

Originally Posted by tater

My personal take is that the campaigns should be written with a range of AI skills, and then if merging is desired, have the Automated Campaign Editor change them as needed.

That's really the easy part of TM-merging.
tater

#1 We think it must be your mission to photo op.the fleet at Palau,because of the hundreds of miles of sub nets We ran into at 1K,& sunk the boat. Last time we played the mission we had the cover of rain,& storm,& went over the nets at the same area surfaced,North end of island. Made it to star,but was unable to find ,or take photo op.of locked ship,no radar return of any task force in area. So what goes here !
#2 And if it is so (EASY),Put Out a read-me to accomplish the merging of RSRD,& TM

[tater]

There is supposed to be a docked BB there, actually. I'll have a look.

Making a readme to do it is non-trivial. I could do it, but it would take a few hours probably. It's kind of like fixing something... you might be able to fix some complex engine problem, but doing a write up for ME to do it would take more work than just doing it. It's "easy" but that doesn't mean it's not a lot of work, if you catch my meaning.

tater

[Munchausen]

Originally Posted by tater

With accurate DC loads, the TM improved AI sensors are not that bad, since you can run them out of ammo (RSDS includes modded DCs). To the extent it makes skippers more careful, I think that alone increases realism. If you know the IJN ASW will just suck, and only a random lucky shot will ever sink you, I think you end up playing in a sloppy way. In RL I think that US boats were not lost in huge numbers partially because of poor jap ASW, but also because they were careful.

On average, Japanese destroyers spent a lot of time trying to sink submarines. It's hard to determine the success rate because, where they succeeded, we get very few stories from the unlucky sub crews. It's usually when a boat escaped a depth charging that we get an accurate account of how long the attack lasted and how badly the boat was damaged.

"Silent Running," page 85:

Dykers carefully maneuvered the Jack to give the attacker as little target as possible. And in the ASW ship's long periods of just listening (we could hear his screws stop), Dykers would also come to all stop and just let Miles Refo keep our balance, hovering with no motion. Of course, while doing this Miles would occasionally have to run the trim pump to keep our balance. When he did, it sounded like a cataclysm of noise in the silence.

All told, our Japanese friend dropped thirty-nine depth charges over a period of about five hours. That is, the clock said five hours. It seemed more like five days to me.

Five hours was not an unusually long period of time for a U.S. submarine to suffer depth charging.

[tater]

39 DCs. Does it mention what they thought she was? For most information I have that would make her likely a Kaibokan since most DDs maxed out at 36 DCs.

That's a problem with my current DC mod.

They make a pass, and drop one from every launcher. 5 hours would be hard at the rate they drop. I'm thnking that I need to add more of everything, and increase some of the reload times a great deal So a given escort might be able to only make the first pass an "alpha strike" and all the rest might be a fraction of the DC launchers on any given pass. Instead of a 15s or 30s reload time, I should look into a few minutes as the standard, with a few thrown in that are much longer. The might result in a more drawn out attack.

tater

[pythos]

But Version 1.02 seems to have an even worse version of the no dock bug.

My boat is currently sitting inside Surabaja (sp) harbor, and it is 12-25-1941. There is no docking option whatshoever. No Refit, or postpone, or end mission. The base is being treated like an enemy base, despite the fact there is a big blue ancor over it on the map.

[barndog]

In periscope view????????

It would be

1. More realistic
2. Easier to see what you need to see.
3. Easier on the eyes.

I thought I saw this effect somewhere before. Certainly is harder to see with the screen being white/yellow and it is night and you are submerged and trying to accurately place torps.

It took me 7 to finally sink a modern passenger liner last night and the thing took an additional 17 shells. Yes I am also running NSM Classic but I did spred the torps all over the hull

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by pythos

But Version 1.02 seems to have an even worse version of the no dock bug.

My boat is currently sitting inside Surabaja (sp) harbor, and it is 12-25-1941. There is no docking option whatshoever. No Refit, or postpone, or end mission. The base is being treated like an enemy base, despite the fact there is a big blue ancor over it on the map.

Are you using a "saved" mission then that your problem

here the readme from the V101 patch

Install instructions:
RSRDC_P1Patch_v101 is JSGME ready. Using JSGME, install over the top of RSRDC_P1_v100. Before install ensure that your boat is import.

Changes:
(1) Replace 16 Objective files that had errors in them. These Objective files are used by “Task Force 3/51/71 and cover the early war years around the Philippines and NEI.
(2) Merge the Flotilla 2/5/6 back into a single Flotilla 2, this is to correct the “Task Force 3” / “ABDA-Task Force 3” transfer problem
(3) Added “Small Merchant CTD Fix” by Jace11 / tater

User that have a careers that started in “SubPac” or “Task Force 42/72” is patch will fix # 1 & 2 will not effect you. However, anyone who has started in “Task Force 3” / “ABDA-Task Force 3” or “Task Force 51/71” will have to restart your career.

[THE_MASK]

So do i just install 1.02 and delete any previous versions .

[lurker_hlb3]

Originally Posted by sober

So do i just install 1.02 and delete any previous versions .

yes that is correct

[rascal101]

Is it actually possible to merge RSRD and TM and RFB, now that would be one hell of a mix, does any one know.

Originally Posted by donut

#1 We think it must be your mission to photo op.the fleet at Palau,because of the hundreds of miles of sub nets We ran into at 1K,& sunk the boat. Last time we played the mission we had the cover of rain,& storm,& went over the nets at the same area surfaced,North end of island. Made it to star,but was unable to find ,or take photo op.of locked ship,no radar return of any task force in area. So what goes here !
#2 And if it is so (EASY),Put Out a read-me to accomplish the merging of RSRD,& TM