Strike on North Korea

[THE_MASK]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Agreed. We knew where he was during that stupid parade, we should have sent in a Tomahawk and knocked him out right then.

I reckon your just taking the piss but anything is possible now with Trump in charge of the world . Trump might have had the same thought .

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Funny, by that vigilante-logic, we could almost say the same about many other countries..... The USA for example. :p

Now of course, KJU deserves a Tomahawk or two, but that's just not how it works.

Sure, that's why all the oppressed Americans are on the internet, where are the North Koreans?

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Funny, by that vigilante-logic, we could almost say the same about many other countries..... The USA for example. :p

Now of course, KJU deserves a Tomahawk or two, but that's just not how it works.

The U.S. doesnt even in any way form or fashion come close to being like the DPRK. But you can thank the Russians and Chinese for this abomination they created that we call North Korea. After reading the document below I'm of the opinion the whole northern peninsula needs to be reset and quite frankly a Tomahawk or two isnt gonna be enough. As usual the U.S. will have to eventually clean up someones elses mess AGAIN and somehow we'll get blamed for it.

Summary
The present document contains the detailed findings of the commission of inquiry on human rights in the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea. The Commission’s principal findings and recommendations are provided in document A/HRC/25/63."

https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/...df?OpenElement



.

[Von Due]

Gents, please.

"We have more internet than them so

We
Are
Right".

"Human rights", peace, freedom and democracy. Straw arguements. Really, that really is all that has ever been. Arguements void of actual meaning constructed for one purpose and one purpose alone: Stir up emotions and support for the real idea:

We
Are
Right.

Is freedom the right to have a foreign power decide who should run the store? Before you think the US never made such a decision, two words: Central America. Two more words: South America. For starters. Human rights have never, ever, been an actual topic when politics for dominance is discussed and that discussion is absolutely dab at the core of it for China, Russia and the US. Human rights is the straw arguement, the card to play, strictly for the PR guys gathering support among the public.

To say Dim Phat Kim is not the legitimate leader is silly. There is no universal rule book on who gets to rule. Guns make right and there you have your human rights in bloody bits across the fields. This is how countries have formed and leaders have appeared, with the help of swords and guns and no approval from those who lost what they used to have. NK, China, US of A, the UK, Norway, Russia, Germany, France, Italy, countries in post colonial Africa, all countries period.

How much more of the internet we have access to, "human rights", "I don't like him", none of that should ever mean

We
Are
Right.

If those ideas should be considered legitimate reasons for breaking the truce, then you just opened a big, ugly can of worms and those worms you can't easily put back in. You have then given _any_ foreign power the arguement _they_ need to launch an attack against any nation they would like to "deal with". This can of worms is truly nasty.

As for "we always get the blame", complete that sentence. "We always get the blame for nasty business we chose to get involved in". The victim card: Never leave house without a deck of victim cards.

PS: Personal opinion: NK leadership has more in common with crime syndicates when you look at what the State is involved in. A good enough reason to attack? Nope. Show me a state that has the innocence of a newborn angel kitty first for starters.

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Sure, that's why all the oppressed Americans are on the internet, where are the North Koreans?

Remember what happened with Russian users.

The moment Russian users flooded the internet due to the internet becoming cheap and availiable they were labeled as state sponsored trolls.

[vienna]

...and your point is?...




<O>

[ikalugin]

Originally Posted by vienna

...and your point is?...
<O>

Well, it may not go as you expect.

When internet became cheap and availiable in Russia, Russian users were just disregarded as state hired trolls for having a different opinion.

Internet sort of creates those bubles of opinion. The only reason why I stay on subsim is because it is very civil.

So maybe if people of DPRK did get internet they would share the same fate - being disregarded as state hired trolls that is.

It does make me wonder though how about how hard it is to get internet access in the DPRK.

[Onkel Neal]

I don't know for fact but what I have read is people in NK do not have access to the web, they cannot join forums like Subsim and express their thoughts. They are living in a madhouse society, where they have no dreams or hope, where they see the world in a distorted way. Their news and education are skewed from reality--the brainwashing starts from the age a child can talk. They have limited freedom to travel in their own "country". Even in the capital, they have limited access to water, they have to fill their bathub once a day and get by on that.

These are real people who do not deserve to live like this, and we in the western world and China go on our merry way, complaining about how many fps our latest PC needs to play Fallout 4. The world should not look the other way. I want to see justice for the dictator who is causing this. Ask anyone if they had the chance to kill Hitler in 1933, etc. Well, it might be better to risk a retaliatory strike from NK now, than in 5 years when they can hit back with nukes.

[Gargamel]

Neal is right, something needs done in NK.

But without China's approval, not much can get done that won't escalate into a very bad situation. But I'm under the belief that China is starting to get fed up with NK's shenanigans and might condone some action, diplomatic or otherwise.

[Von Due]

I would like to see Kim go too but here is the thing:

It's not about human rights, internet (they do have access to a very restricted internet full of propaganda but it's there and outsiders can reach a few sites if they so wish), fresh veggies to all or anything like that. It's about which super power should dominate a united Korea and here is where China and the US are negotiating, China hellbent on not having SK and thus the US dominating, the US hellbent on not having NK and China dominating. Chivalery or rights has no place in those talks. While these talks are going on, the regime in NK laughs all the way to the bank where counterfeit money are produced, where the launderette is full of real money from drug trade, all under the supervision of Room 39.

China supports the crime lord to halt US influence just like the US financed, trained and supported death squads across the Americas in the 70's and 80's to halt Russian influence. Starvation in NK, massacres in sports arenas in Chile, not much difference, is there? None of that worries leaders of nations and if they tell you they do, well they are doing their job by saying they do and indeed doing their job by not caring in the slightest. Expedience above all else.

China is one key and not everything is rosery red between the two, from Kim's anger that he is openly mocked on Chinese social sites with the Chinese state not overly keen on stopping that, to China halting imports and closing airline routes between the 2 countries, signs that China is indeed concerned over whether or not a change is needed. Who they would prefer as replacement is an open question but I wouldn't hold me breath waiting for miracles for the average guy, just like miracles didn't happen in Iraq after the US and the UK installed their puppet: Saddam.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I don't know for fact but what I have read is people in NK do not have access to the web, they cannot join forums like Subsim and express their thoughts. They are living in a madhouse society, where they have no dreams or hope, where they see the world in a distorted way. Their news and education are skewed from reality--the brainwashing starts from the age a child can talk. They have limited freedom to travel in their own "country". Even in the capital, they have limited access to water, they have to fill their bathub once a day and get by on that.

These are real people who do not deserve to live like this, and we in the western world and China go on our merry way, complaining about how many fps our latest PC needs to play Fallout 4. The world should not look the other way. I want to see justice for the dictator who is causing this. Ask anyone if they had the chance to kill Hitler in 1933, etc. Well, it might be better to risk a retaliatory strike from NK now, than in 5 years when they can hit back with nukes.

The big drawback of the Internet as a means of disseminating information to places like NK is the fact the Net relies on fairly easily controlled portals; unlike in earlier decades where the US could use outlets like the VOA to transmit information the leadership of other countries, particularly dictatorships of all stripes, it is easier to 'turn off the tap'.

Originally Posted by Von Due

I would like to see Kim go too but here is the thing:

It's not about human rights, internet (they do have access to a very restricted internet full of propaganda but it's there and outsiders can reach a few sites if they so wish), fresh veggies to all or anything like that. It's about which super power should dominate a united Korea and here is where China and the US are negotiating, China hellbent on not having SK and thus the US dominating, the US hellbent on not having NK and China dominating. Chivalery or rights has no place in those talks. While these talks are going on, the regime in NK laughs all the way to the bank where counterfeit money are produced, where the launderette is full of real money from drug trade, all under the supervision of Room 39.

China supports the crime lord to halt US influence just like the US financed, trained and supported death squads across the Americas in the 70's and 80's to halt Russian influence. Starvation in NK, massacres in sports arenas in Chile, not much difference, is there? None of that worries leaders of nations and if they tell you they do, well they are doing their job by saying they do and indeed doing their job by not caring in the slightest. Expedience above all else.

China is one key and not everything is rosery red between the two, from Kim's anger that he is openly mocked on Chinese social sites with the Chinese state not overly keen on stopping that, to China halting imports and closing airline routes between the 2 countries, signs that China is indeed concerned over whether or not a change is needed. Who they would prefer as replacement is an open question but I wouldn't hold me breath waiting for miracles for the average guy, just like miracles didn't happen in Iraq after the US and the UK installed their puppet: Saddam.

When I was 14 years old, I spent a summer in Central America, in a country ruled by a dictatorial family much like the Kim family rule. The dictatorship had been established and supported by the US under the old "well, he may be an SOB, but he's our SOB" type of logic. The dictator held virtual total control over all aspects of the citizens comings and goings and kept a tight rein on anything that might have threatened the rulers. When we wanted to travel from the capital to an area in the mountains, we found out special written permission had to obtained from the authorities, which in that country was the military, where we had to give our time of departure, route, stops, estimated time of arrival, and details about all the persons involved in the trip and what they were going to carry; note this was not just because we were foreigners, this was SOP for anybody traveling within the borders. There were severe penalties in the form of stiff fines if any of the info was found to be false and, if you should arrive at your destination late and the time difference was considered by the military to be out f the ordinary, you could be arrested and imprisoned; while were were there, we heard of a couple of cases where late arrivers were deemed to have been suspiciously late and were summarily shot by soldiers who suspected the travelers of being possible rebels; one of the cases was reported to have involved children who were shot. Those three months we spent under that country's rule gave me a practical education in how very, very lucky we in the US are to live under our laws; it also gave an education of how truly horrifying US foreign policy can sometimes make life for people in lands where they live under dictators and/or corrupt governments who exist mainly because they are important to "US interests". The people of NK suffer because the existence of Kim is vital to China's interest and, before China, during the Cold War, NK was was under the wing of the USSR. NK was a thorn in China's side until the fall of the USSR and China grudgingly took on the role of "protector" of NK just as a means of keeping SK and their ally, the US from ending up on their border...




<O>

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Sure, that's why all the oppressed Americans are on the internet, where are the North Koreans?

10/10 lol.

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

They are living in a madhouse society, where they have no dreams or hope, where they see the world in a distorted way. Their news and education are skewed from reality--the brainwashing starts from the age a child can talk.

Are we still talking NK? ;D

Are you, as an American, not living in what could easily be described as a 'madhouse society'? Because that sounds like a perfect description of the US American society to me.

And what do you know about other people's hopes and dreams? I'm sure they have them too - probably just a little different then ours.
How is the western school system and media not skewed from reality?
Some countries allow home schooling, where patents are free to teach their kids that God is great and evolution is nonsense, or where kids are expected to pledge allegiance to a flag - and be alienated, in many cases, if not.

That's not any better from "our eternal leader rides unicorns", same level of nonsense, really.

Our media?
You're the Republican, you tell me how awesome our media is - and what some of us consider legit news sources these days (breitbart, lol).
And all the brainwashing we receive also starts from our earliest days, be it religion, capitalism, the sense for superiority, patriotism and other fanatic points of view.

There are many ways to define freedom and oppression, both terms are open for interpretation.
I'd argue that we westerners are also some kind of slaves and we too live in oppression, partially.
While some of us can and do escape this, the vast majority are nothing but brainwashed slaves to our systems as well.
Are we not? I sure am, to some degree, if I reflect a bit.

Did north Koreans pick the shorter straw?
No doubt they did, but we aren't much better - and if we can arbitrarily claim what leader of whatever nation is ok or not, so can Kim and his gang.

[ikalugin]

These are real people who do not deserve to live like this

Are you willing to pay for improved living conditions in the DPRK out of your own pocket?

[Onkel Neal]

Several sarcastic responses about feeding other countries came to mind but let me just say yes I would. Gladly

[Fubar2Niner]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Several sarcastic responses about feeding other countries came to mind but let me just say yes I would. Gladly

Same could be said here Onkel, and not just feeding. Lets try including medicine etc. Whilst some of those same contries have space programs????? Nuclear programs etc.

I do fear Trumps childlike attitude toward weapon use. Kims is no less childlike.

Many millions of lives at stake, because two tools, think they have the biggest tool.

Best regards.

Fubar