CW needs to check sub damage after a mission before assigning another mission

Halcyon · 07-28-17, 06:14 PM

By some miracle, I finished a mission against an invasion convoy with 63% hull damage, a busted tube, and flooding in the back 2 rear compartments.

Diving below 150 feet of water would quickly fill up the 2nd to last compartment up to the ceiling, even with damage control assigned to the pumps.
Technically I could put around with 20% positive ballast just to stay level, but obviously the condition the sub is in wasn't fit for combat.

After finishing the mission and getting the "great job" screen.....my next mission is to attack another convoy.

What?

No. I need to RTB and repair. The next mission should have been RTB and repair. The game should have checked the condition of my sub (because realistically I would have radioed back to HQ to tell them the condition of the USS Chicago) and they would have had me come back for a refit and repairs instead of sending me back out again with a hole in the side of the sub.

I RTBd and repaired/rearmed, which took about 72 hours since a busted tube takes 48 hours to repair.

I failed the next mission, obviously. This isn't very logical.

Skyhigh · 07-29-17, 03:26 AM

Let's put the war on hold while your boat is being patched, allright?

midnight.mangler · 07-29-17, 06:50 AM

It is perfectly logical. You are being penalised by the game system for being so heavily damaged in the prior mission. If you had managed your objectives without damaging the sub, then you would have no issue. And indeed, as the poster above says, in the real world theatre you would also "fail the mission" as you would have to RTB and the Russians aren't exactly going to sit around twiddling their thumbs while you enjoy shore leave and hot tubbing at Holy Loch.

So I think its quite logical. Whether or not it makes for satisfying gameplay is another question. In my mind, I accept that if I stuff up a mission and nearly sink the boat, the war effort will probably suffer as a result. And so I think the developer's logic is the right one.

Pytheas · 07-29-17, 11:54 AM

Once in successful convoy mission I suffered heavy damage (hull integrity was very low) and almost no weapons left. After i ordered to RTB to rearm and repairs...

Skyhigh · 07-29-17, 12:06 PM

Of course a fish without teeth cannot bite. So it's normal to RTB if you run out of ammo.

So I guess if your hull is damaged, offload all your weapons into the sea and you will get an RTB order

Halcyon · 07-29-17, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midnight.mangler

It is perfectly logical. You are being penalised by the game system for being so heavily damaged in the prior mission. If you had managed your objectives without damaging the sub, then you would have no issue. And indeed, as the poster above says, in the real world theatre you would also "fail the mission" as you would have to RTB and the Russians aren't exactly going to sit around twiddling their thumbs while you enjoy shore leave and hot tubbing at Holy Loch.

So I think its quite logical. Whether or not it makes for satisfying gameplay is another question. In my mind, I accept that if I stuff up a mission and nearly sink the boat, the war effort will probably suffer as a result. And so I think the developer's logic is the right one.

It's not logical, and the developer disagrees with you.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/541210...0994964745887/

Skyhigh · 07-29-17, 03:26 PM

And I disagree with the developer.

It is superlogical.
You let yourself be damaged, you decide whether you continue on a mission or fail it to repair. It's a nice dilemma, I have faced it many times.

wastel · 07-29-17, 04:46 PM

More Importan is, that after RTB, first reload and repairs, THEN new mission assign.
The current way sucks

Capt Jack Harkness · 07-29-17, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

And I disagree with the developer.

It is superlogical.
You let yourself be damaged, you decide whether you continue on a mission or fail it to repair. It's a nice dilemma, I have faced it many times.

Yes, the war goes on without you, but at the same time it makes no sense for COMSUBLANT to assign a new mission to a boat they know to be combat ineffective.

Delgard · 07-29-17, 07:01 PM

It seems it would be the Commander's call on whether the sub is mission capable.

But, in the same sense, the Commander recognizes his responsibility to stay mission capable for follow-on taskings in a war.

National budgets being national budgets, taking command of anything calls for responsibility to accomplish the duties of command, knowing the importance of staying mission-capable during said command.

There should be some "career" set-back for losing mission capability.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 07-29-17, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt Jack Harkness

Yes, the war goes on without you, but at the same time it makes no sense for COMSUBLANT to assign a new mission to a boat they know to be combat ineffective.

Well, but you get to refuse it in this game just by running towards port nevertheless. Ain't THAT nice enough already?

Halcyon · 07-29-17, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

And I disagree with the developer.

It is superlogical.
You let yourself be damaged, you decide whether you continue on a mission or fail it to repair. It's a nice dilemma, I have faced it many times.

Explain how it's logical that command would order me to attack a full strength invasion convoy with a 67% hull integrity, a hull breach, a broken tube, and flooding in two compartments?

I didn't "continue" on a mission in this state. I ended a mission in this state. Logic says I would contact command and tell them, "hey, there's a hole in my boat, I'm RTB" instead of recklessly steaming towards a certain death and endangering my crew.

Having the game assign me another mission after the game knows I have damage to my sub (and it knows this because it says so in the debrief screen) is absurd and not logical.
No logic in it. Developer has the right idea to change it and allow a damaged sub to trigger an RTB mission type.

Skyhigh · 07-30-17, 01:19 AM

You miss the point.

There IS an invasion fleet.
You want to RTB.

Your choice, should always be your choice. It is illogical and absurd that command will say, ah let the invasion happen because this poor little sub has a hole in it.

Be a hero and save the day, or fail the mission. It will teach you to sustain less damage next time. I will ask the developer directly not to change it, or at least think it over.

Delgard · 07-30-17, 01:33 AM

The Skipper takes ultimate responsibility for everything concerning the boat.

What would the Squadron CDR say when the sub captain brings in an overly damaged boat? I suspect he would investigate and while that is occurring, the boat would be assigned to a different commander who sees to repairs and takes it to sea.

As far as CW, it should reduce the players score and the enemy (Soviet military) gets a Bennie because a sub was not on station conducting a needed mission during wartime.

The CW campaign scenario also values judicious use of torpedoes. It is war, after all. We just can't keep going back to base.

Halcyon · 07-30-17, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

You miss the point.

There IS an invasion fleet.
You want to RTB.

Your choice, should always be your choice. It is illogical and absurd that command will say, ah let the invasion happen because this poor little sub has a hole in it.

Be a hero and save the day, or fail the mission.

And what about the mission after that? And the one after that?
At what point is it "ok" to RTB to get repairs?

According to you, the only acceptable scenario where you get to RTB without a penalty is if you run out of ammo....or do you plan on ramming the next convoy?
I mean...what's another hole, right?

Absurd.

07-28-17, 06:14 PM	#1
Halcyon Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 106 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 3	CW needs to check sub damage after a mission before assigning another mission By some miracle, I finished a mission against an invasion convoy with 63% hull damage, a busted tube, and flooding in the back 2 rear compartments. Diving below 150 feet of water would quickly fill up the 2nd to last compartment up to the ceiling, even with damage control assigned to the pumps. Technically I could put around with 20% positive ballast just to stay level, but obviously the condition the sub is in wasn't fit for combat. After finishing the mission and getting the "great job" screen.....my next mission is to attack another convoy. What? No. I need to RTB and repair. The next mission should have been RTB and repair. The game should have checked the condition of my sub (because realistically I would have radioed back to HQ to tell them the condition of the USS Chicago) and they would have had me come back for a refit and repairs instead of sending me back out again with a hole in the side of the sub. I RTBd and repaired/rearmed, which took about 72 hours since a busted tube takes 48 hours to repair. I failed the next mission, obviously. This isn't very logical.

07-29-17, 03:26 AM	#2
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	Let's put the war on hold while your boat is being patched, allright?

07-29-17, 06:50 AM	#3
midnight.mangler Watch Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 16 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	It is perfectly logical. You are being penalised by the game system for being so heavily damaged in the prior mission. If you had managed your objectives without damaging the sub, then you would have no issue. And indeed, as the poster above says, in the real world theatre you would also "fail the mission" as you would have to RTB and the Russians aren't exactly going to sit around twiddling their thumbs while you enjoy shore leave and hot tubbing at Holy Loch. So I think its quite logical. Whether or not it makes for satisfying gameplay is another question. In my mind, I accept that if I stuff up a mission and nearly sink the boat, the war effort will probably suffer as a result. And so I think the developer's logic is the right one.

07-29-17, 11:54 AM	#4
Pytheas Swabbie Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 8 Downloads: 12 Uploads: 0	Once in successful convoy mission I suffered heavy damage (hull integrity was very low) and almost no weapons left. After i ordered to RTB to rearm and repairs...

07-29-17, 12:06 PM	#5
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	Of course a fish without teeth cannot bite. So it's normal to RTB if you run out of ammo. So I guess if your hull is damaged, offload all your weapons into the sea and you will get an RTB order

07-29-17, 03:26 PM	#7
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	And I disagree with the developer. It is superlogical. You let yourself be damaged, you decide whether you continue on a mission or fail it to repair. It's a nice dilemma, I have faced it many times.

07-29-17, 04:46 PM	#8
wastel Watch Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 24 Downloads: 46 Uploads: 0	More Importan is, that after RTB, first reload and repairs, THEN new mission assign. The current way sucks

07-29-17, 07:01 PM	#10
Delgard Skipper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	It seems it would be the Commander's call on whether the sub is mission capable. But, in the same sense, the Commander recognizes his responsibility to stay mission capable for follow-on taskings in a war. National budgets being national budgets, taking command of anything calls for responsibility to accomplish the duties of command, knowing the importance of staying mission-capable during said command. There should be some "career" set-back for losing mission capability.

07-30-17, 01:19 AM	#13
Skyhigh A-ganger Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 74 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 1	You miss the point. There IS an invasion fleet. You want to RTB. Your choice, should always be your choice. It is illogical and absurd that command will say, ah let the invasion happen because this poor little sub has a hole in it. Be a hero and save the day, or fail the mission. It will teach you to sustain less damage next time. I will ask the developer directly not to change it, or at least think it over.

07-30-17, 01:33 AM	#14
Delgard Skipper Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: AZ & DC Posts: 487 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	The Skipper takes ultimate responsibility for everything concerning the boat. What would the Squadron CDR say when the sub captain brings in an overly damaged boat? I suspect he would investigate and while that is occurring, the boat would be assigned to a different commander who sees to repairs and takes it to sea. As far as CW, it should reduce the players score and the enemy (Soviet military) gets a Bennie because a sub was not on station conducting a needed mission during wartime. The CW campaign scenario also values judicious use of torpedoes. It is war, after all. We just can't keep going back to base.