TDC Problem

[MDV_4life]

Hi, i'm having this problem with the TDC with the german U boats.

It seems like when I enter all the information into the TDC and when i fire, it fires the topedoes at the position the ship was at when I pressed the fire button.

I never had this problem with the US U boats because of the Position Keeper.
I notice that the data changes automaticaly at the attack map (not navigation map).

But the torpedoes doesn't seem to run ahead of the target, just straight at the ship.

Any help about this problem ?

[dcb]

Do you also measure the target speed and enter it into the TDC? If yes, how are you doing it - auto or manual, enter it via notepad or TDC?
Remember that the German TDC has no position keeper and your solutions must be as "fresh" as possible. Even the lag due to opening the torp door can be enough delay so that to send your solutions off course, so when firing it is ideal to already have the torp door open.

[Hitman]

The german TDC auto updates by following the target with your optics. Once your solution is set (Distance, AOB, Speed) you must lock the TDC and by moving your scope teh solution will always be updated to where you re looking at. (With UZO or scopes)

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by dcb

Do you also measure the target speed and enter it into the TDC? If yes, how are you doing it - auto or manual, enter it via notepad or TDC?
Remember that the German TDC has no position keeper and your solutions must be as "fresh" as possible. Even the lag due to opening the torp door can be enough delay so that to send your solutions off course, so when firing it is ideal to already have the torp door open.

Yes all data is entered into the TDC, i'm doing it manual and i put my info via the TDC. I always open my tubes before i shoot. And my information is so fresh, i'm sure.

Originally Posted by dcb

The german TDC auto updates by following the target with your optics. Once your solution is set (Distance, AOB, Speed) you must lock the TDC and by moving your scope teh solution will always be updated to where you re looking at. (With UZO or scopes)

How do you mean ? Do you mean that the information is automaticly updated by locking on to the target? If yes, i though it was like this, but why doesn't i never hit a target? I once hitted several ships but that was with salvos in the middle of a convoy.

[Hitman]

How do you mean ? Do you mean that the information is automaticly updated by locking on to the target? If yes, i though it was like this, but why doesn't i never hit a target? I once hitted several ships but that was with salvos in the middle of a convoy.

Target, submarine and impact point form a triangle. As you know, all triangle's angles always sum 180º, therefore if neither you nor the target do change course, following the target with the optics adss or substracts the exact amount of degrees to compensate the new target location. For example: If the target is at a 300º bearing as viewed from your submarine and the AOB is 40, then if the target moves to 340º on your bearing and neither you or him have changed course, the new AOB is 40+40=80º

The german TDC does this automatically, to see it just go to the TDC dials and move the "Bearing" one and you will see how the AOB one will rotate correspondingly.

Once you enter in your TDC speed and AOB, just following your target with the optics will ensure that the solution is instantly updated

In real submarines, the mechanical internals of the TDC took a few seconds to update, thus they simply moved the scope to a place where the target would cross and the Gyro angle be as close to zero as possible, and waited until the enemy ship crossed that point of aim. In SH3/ SH4 our modern PC computers do it nearly instantly, so you can point and shoot with no delay, or simply follow the target and shoot whenever you want

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Target, submarine and impact point form a triangle. As you know, all triangle's angles always sum 180º, therefore if neither you nor the target do change course, following the target with the optics adss or substracts the exact amount of degrees to compensate the new target location. For example: If the target is at a 300º bearing as viewed from your submarine and the AOB is 40, then if the target moves to 340º on your bearing and neither you or him have changed course, the new AOB is 40+40=80º

The german TDC does this automatically, to see it just go to the TDC dials and move the "Bearing" one and you will see how the AOB one will rotate correspondingly.

Once you enter in your TDC speed and AOB, just following your target with the optics will ensure that the solution is instantly updated

In real submarines, the mechanical internals of the TDC took a few seconds to update, thus they simply moved the scope to a place where the target would cross and the Gyro angle be as close to zero as possible, and waited until the enemy ship crossed that point of aim. In SH3/ SH4 our modern PC computers do it nearly instantly, so you can point and shoot with no delay, or simply follow the target and shoot whenever you want

Yes i already noticed the AOB rotates correspondingly.

I think i know what my problem could be.
With the US U boats you had like a visual AOB. You can see the relationship in the position between your sub and the target.

The Geran OAB calculator is just a dot, and i think i enter every time the bearing of the target ( the degrees i see the ship , i.e. behind me: 180 degrees ). Do I have to enter the AOB like in the US U boat ? Like the angle it is seen from my sub?

I was a bit confused on how to use the german OAB calculator.
Could you explane how you know at wich angle it is because just from seeing the target trough your optics it is sometimes impossible to tell what angle it is.

Or do you have to use the map like in the old days ? :rotfl:

Would like to have some clarification on the OAB.

Many regards.

[MDV_4life]

Sorry for the bump but could anyone explaine how the german AOB works ?

I think i always give the bearing of the ship instead of the angle of the ship.
Anyway i tried it the otherway but still no go.



I'm just waiting to get some answer :hmm:

Well anyway , thanks.

[Hitman]

Uuups sorry for the delay I forgot momentarily about this topic

The german AOB (BTW in german language it is called "Lagewinkel" or simply "Lage") is the same concept as the american AOB. What exactly are you willing to know, what the AOB concept is or how to input the AOB you have estimated in the TDC?

[Hitman]

Ok never mind, here is a crash course on AOB for you :

First of all, this here is the AOB or Lagenwinkel: The angle between your bearing to the target (Yellow line) and the target's course.



And this is how the same situation looks like when viewed through your scope. Yellow line (bearing) is obviously pointing at the target, red line is the target course. How do you get the value of the angle between the yellow and the red line? Basically there are tow methods: A) Plot the target movements on the map and then measure the angle, or B) Estimate it visually from your scope. This one is the most difficult, yet it is quick and is one of the peculiar arts of submarining. You can find in the SH3 forum a great tutorial that Joegrundman did about estimating visually



now we can estimate here the AOb as being about 50º, so we will plug that into the TDC.

Since the target's bow is pointing right we know the AOb is starboard -green colour- so we go to the TDC, unlock it to allow manual input dial and manually move the needle in the AOB dial to show 50 green (Highlighted in yellow circle). That's all. You can do it from the notepad also, but I normally prefer doing it directly on the TDC.




OK, if you didn't understand something or have any doubts, just ask and I will try to provide further help If I don't reply, send me a private message because I might have forgottena bout this thread -I have two little children and they are good enough to make you forget even about your own name LOL-

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Ok never mind, here is a crash course on AOB for you :

First of all, this here is the AOB or Lagenwinkel: The angle between your bearing to the target (Yellow line) and the target's course.



And this is how the same situation looks like when viewed through your scope. Yellow line (bearing) is obviously pointing at the target, red line is the target course. How do you get the value of the angle between the yellow and the red line? Basically there are tow methods: A) Plot the target movements on the map and then measure the angle, or B) Estimate it visually from your scope. This one is the most difficult, yet it is quick and is one of the peculiar arts of submarining. You can find in the SH3 forum a great tutorial that Joegrundman did about estimating visually



now we can estimate here the AOb as being about 50º, so we will plug that into the TDC.

Since the target's bow is pointing right we know the AOb is starboard -green colour- so we go to the TDC, unlock it to allow manual input dial and manually move the needle in the AOB dial to show 50 green (Highlighted in yellow circle). That's all. You can do it from the notepad also, but I normally prefer doing it directly on the TDC.




OK, if you didn't understand something or have any doubts, just ask and I will try to provide further help If I don't reply, send me a private message because I might have forgottena bout this thread -I have two little children and they are good enough to make you forget even about your own name LOL-

Ok, to avoid any further confusion, I KNOW HOW TO USE THE TDC & OAB

When i was playing with the US subs i had to manual enter the info into the TDC, and my fishes hitted the target just fine. But now I'm playing with the German subs and I'm also have to manual enter the info but the torpedoes doesn't seem to go to a point where the target would pass. They go directly to the ship. But as most ships do, they move forward! So my torpedoes miss every time.

I was strugling with a ship that i couldn't hit because of the isue but now i got him but i have to enable manual input on the attack map and adjust the bearing so the line would end up BEFORE the ship. I was lucky and just hitted him on the nose and in the middle.

But it was a merchent and it was from 300 m. or something so not ideal method to take down a ship.

Do you have to do this every time (the manual adjust the bearing of your torpedo plotted course) with the manual targeting with German subs ? cause with the US ones i didn't had to do this. :hmm:

Hope you understand my problem now, i know how to use it, but i don't understand why my fishes don't plot their own way so they would hit their target.

thanks

[Hitman]

But now I'm playing with the German subs and I'm also have to manual enter the info but the torpedoes doesn't seem to go to a point where the target would pass. They go directly to the ship. But as most ships do, they move forward! So my torpedoes miss every time.

Ahhh that looks most likely as a speed problem. If you are shooting at the point where the enemy IS then this is the same as setting enemy speed to zero. You must enter the speed manually into the TDC or via the notepad (Calculating it for a few seconds before). Same as with the AOB, unlock the TDC and enter the speed in the rightmost dial, then lock again. Should take care of your problem

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by Hitman

Ahhh that looks most likely as a speed problem. If you are shooting at the point where the enemy IS then this is the same as setting enemy speed to zero. You must enter the speed manually into the TDC or via the notepad (Calculating it for a few seconds before). Same as with the AOB, unlock the TDC and enter the speed in the rightmost dial, then lock again. Should take care of your problem

This is how i'm doing it.

I measure the distance between my and the target. Then i wait a couple of seconds and do it again. Than i press on 'speed' and then on the little chronometer. Then my crew member do an estimated speed check and than i press on the ' V '. Then i see the speed is entered. But now that you are saying. When i looked at the dials of the TDC the Speed meter seems to remain on zero but i thought this was not a problem since i had entered the speed on the notepad.

http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tdcpk4.jpg

On this image you can see the gegnerfahrt stand on 0. Its always looks like this with my dials.
Just so you see what i mean

Do i have to do something more so it is entered into the dials or what ?

[Hitman]

Then i see the speed is entered. But now that you are saying. When i looked at the dials of the TDC the Speed meter seems to remain on zero but i thought this was not a problem since i had entered the speed on the notepad.

OK we have then finally found out the problem

Once you have all the data in the Notepad: distance, AOB, speed, you must once again press the V symbol to send it to the TDC! Otherwise all those data you collected stay at the notepad and don't make it to the TDC

Remember: Press V each time you have collected a data (distance, aob, speed) and then once all data re displayed in the notepad main page, click AGAIN to send the whole results to the TDC

[MDV_4life]

Originally Posted by Hitman

OK we have then finally found out the problem

Once you have all the data in the Notepad: distance, AOB, speed, you must once again press the V symbol to send it to the TDC! Otherwise all those data you collected stay at the notepad and don't make it to the TDC

Remember: Press V each time you have collected a data (distance, aob, speed) and then once all data re displayed in the notepad main page, click AGAIN to send the whole results to the TDC

So actually i was shooting at the target just with bearing info ? :p

[Hitman]

Yes!