US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Platapus]

This question keeps coming up on other forums and I am, frankly, surprised that it is even being asked. The answer seems pretty clearly "no".

The creation and management of an Independent Counsel is governed by Federal Law. Specifically Title 28 U.S.C. Chapter 40 sections 591 through 599.

The applicable section concerning the dismissal of an Independent Counsel is section 596, which is quoted in its entirety.

28 U.S. Code § 596 - Removal of an independent counsel; termination of office


(a) Removal; Report on Removal.— (1)Grounds for removal.—

An independent counsel appointed under this chapter may be removed from office, other than by impeachment and conviction, only by the personal action of the Attorney General and only for good cause, physical or mental disability (if not prohibited by law protecting persons from discrimination on the basis of such a disability), or any other condition that substantially impairs the performance of such independent counsel’s duties.



(2)Report to division of the court and congress.—

If an independent counsel is removed from office, the Attorney General shall promptly submit to the division of the court and the Committees on the Judiciary of the Senate and the House of Representatives a report specifying the facts found and the ultimate grounds for such removal. The committees shall make available to the public such report, except that each committee may, if necessary to protect the rights of any individual named in the report or to prevent undue interference with any pending prosecution, postpone or refrain from publishing any or all of the report. The division of the court may release any or all of such report in accordance with section 594(h)(2).



(3)Judicial review of removal.—

An independent counsel removed from office may obtain judicial review of the removal in a civil action commenced in the United StatesDistrict Court for the District of Columbia. A member of the division of the court may not hear or determine any such civil action or any appeal of a decision in any such civil action. The independent counsel may be reinstated or granted other appropriate relief by order of the court.




(b) Termination of Office.—

(1)Termination by action of independent counsel.—An office of independent counsel shall terminate when—

(A)the independent counsel notifies the Attorney General that the investigation of all matters within the prosecutorial jurisdiction of such independent counsel or accepted by such independent counsel under section 594(e), and any resulting prosecutions, have been completed or so substantially completed that it would be appropriate for the Department of Justice to complete such investigations and prosecutions; and


(B) the independent counsel files a final report in compliance with section 594(h)(1)(B).



(2)Termination by division of the court.—

The division of the court, either on its own motion or upon the request of the Attorney General, may terminate an office of independent counsel at any time, on the ground that the investigation of all matters within the prosecutorial jurisdiction of such independent counsel or accepted by such independent counsel under section 594(e), and any resulting prosecutions, have been completed or so substantially completed that it would be appropriate for the Department of Justice to complete such investigations and prosecutions. At the time of such termination, the independent counsel shall file the final report required by section 594(h)(1)(B). If the Attorney General has not made a request under this paragraph, the division of the court shall determine on its own motion whether termination is appropriate under this paragraph no later than 2 years after the appointment of an independent counsel, at the end of the succeeding 2-year period, and thereafter at the end of each succeeding 1-year period.




(c)Audits.—

(1) On or before June 30 of each year, an independent counsel shall prepare a statement of expenditures for the 6 months that ended on the immediately preceding March 31. On or before December 31 of each year, an independent counsel shall prepare a statement of expenditures for the fiscal year that ended on the immediately preceding September 30. An independent counsel whose office is terminated prior to the end of the fiscal year shall prepare a statement of expenditures on or before the date that is 90 days after the date on which the office is terminated.


(2) The Comptroller General shall—

(A)conduct a financial review of a mid-year statement and a financial audit of a year-end statement and statement on termination; and


(B)report the results to the Committee on the Judiciary, Committee on Governmental Affairs, and Committee on Appropriations of the Senate and the Committee on the Judiciary, Committee on Government Operations, and Committee on Appropriations of the House of Representatives not later than 90 days following the submission of each such statement.

Cutting through all the legalese, there are only two ways an Independent Counsel can be "fired".


1. By being impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate


2. By the Attorney General or if the AG is unable, due to being recused or involved in the investigation, by the next ranking officer in the DoJ, usually a Deputy.



No where in the law does it authorize the President the authority to fire an Independent Counsel.



The AG can only fire the Independent Counsel for good cause and the AG must submit a report to the congress detailing the cause of the dismissal.



The Independent Counsel can appeal the firing decision and the District Court of DC has the authority to overturn the firing and reinstate the Independent Counsel.



If congress wished for the President to have authority to fire an Independent Counsel, I am pretty sure the would have included that authority.



Now, nothing here prevents a President from thinking that he or she has the authority to fire an Independent Counsel. But, I seriously doubt that the Legislative or the Judicial branch will give up their authority over Independent Counsel firings and appeals.

[Mr Quatro]

Speaking of (the devil) polls

Hillary Clinton's popularity has plunged since election, poll finds

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...oll-finds.html

Hillary Clinton, well over a year after she lost the 2016 election to President Trump, is less popular than ever, according to a poll released this week.

Only 27 percent of those polled had a very or somewhat positive view of the former secretary of state, according to The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll. That makes her less popular than President Trump, whose popularity registered at 35 percent. It is a new low for her in the poll, which clocked her popularity at 30 percent in August 2017.

Disclaimer: this is Fox news

[August]

Obamas polls at the same period in his presidency were pretty much the same.

[Rockstar]

Oh I don't know but I suspect the question keeps coming up because of the number of media articles purporting to have the inside scoop that Trump, is 'thinking about', 'on the verge', 'wants to' or 'will' fire Mueller. Heck even I would think about firing him. Fallout be damned I might even go so far to mention it to the media just to watch them get their panties in a wad over it.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

If polls represented the true thoughts of the American people then Hillary Clinton would be the President of the United States instead of Donald Trump

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/04...l-ratings.html

https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/

https://www.google.com/search?q=US+2...w=1280&bih=876







One look at any of the maps that go by county, shows why Donald Trump is and should be President. The country very clearly went red, and only certain cities went Blue. Hence the Electoral College and why we have it. This was a landslide of which we haven't seen in a good long time in this country. Boy was it fun flipping between Fox and the Cry Baby channels during that night. Easily the greatest night I've ever had in my entire life. I actually expected for The Cry Baby Networks to start committing suicide on air! Fox is far more reliable than any of the other "News" stations. Not that they are perfect.

And if the 2016 election showed anything, it's that people that believe in polls, or think polls should be used to determine how we run things, are not very honest. In fact, they are all bald faced liars, and the entire country sees them as such.

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

Speaking of (the devil) polls

Hillary Clinton's popularity has plunged since election, poll finds

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...oll-finds.html



Disclaimer: this is Fox news

Actually if you read what you posted, you'll see it's the Wall Street Journal, and an NBC poll.
















Jesus..............some people really scare me that they have the ability to actually vote.

[Buddahaid]

I see people still can't make points in posts without using all the modifiers.

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

I see people still can't make points in posts without using all the modifiers.

Yea sorry about the giant maps. Tried to find smaller ones but it was either too small to actually see the counties, or a freaking 4k version of the map!

Of course I suppose I could have just not posted the maps that way, but that wouldn't do the people who would refuse to clink the links because it's facts they don't like any good.

Still, my apologies. Least I limited it to two. Really just to add to the detail. One map you can't see the state outlines, but it gives you a good general idea. The second smaller map shows just how hard each county went for each party by varying the intesity of either red, or blue.

But to be fair, if we weren't suppose to use them, what is the point in them being included?

Originally Posted by Platapus

This question keeps coming up on other forums and I am, frankly, surprised that it is even being asked. The answer seems pretty clearly "no".

The creation and management of an Independent Counsel is governed by Federal Law. Specifically Title 28 U.S.C. Chapter 40 sections 591 through 599.

The applicable section concerning the dismissal of an Independent Counsel is section 596, which is quoted in its entirety.




Cutting through all the legalese, there are only two ways an Independent Counsel can be "fired".


1. By being impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate


2. By the Attorney General or if the AG is unable, due to being recused or involved in the investigation, by the next ranking officer in the DoJ, usually a Deputy.



No where in the law does it authorize the President the authority to fire an Independent Counsel.



The AG can only fire the Independent Counsel for good cause and the AG must submit a report to the congress detailing the cause of the dismissal.



The Independent Counsel can appeal the firing decision and the District Court of DC has the authority to overturn the firing and reinstate the Independent Counsel.



If congress wished for the President to have authority to fire an Independent Counsel, I am pretty sure the would have included that authority.



Now, nothing here prevents a President from thinking that he or she has the authority to fire an Independent Counsel. But, I seriously doubt that the Legislative or the Judicial branch will give up their authority over Independent Counsel firings and appeals.

Yes, he can, you answered it in your own post. The AG can fire him, and the President can direct the AG to fire him.

Will he? Of course not, every day Muller and idiot Democrats are distracted by that literal nothing burger, is another day they've wasted day dreaming.

But I wouldn't mind it if he did, just so I can watch the Left act like the complete and utter idiots they have proven themselves to be.

At the end of the day, I think Trump is thumping the Left so hard, that in the coming years, they will start wanting to shrink the power of the Federal Government. They will definitely be screaming that once he wins again in 2020. And if mind bonking the Left with Trump, gets them to start wanting smaller government, well then I accomplished exactly what I set out to achieve by voting for him. Because when he wins in 2020, he is going to tackle spending and entitlements. And will be able to do so without having to walk a tight rope just to get re-elected.

My country electing Donald J. Trump as President, is the first time I was ever proud of my country.**










































**: Mocking Michelle Obama saying she was never proud of this country till the idiots in it elected her husband to it's highest office.

[Dowly]

I don't think modifier means what you think it means.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Platapus

This question keeps coming up on other forums and I am, frankly, surprised that it is even being asked. The answer seems pretty clearly "no".

The creation and management of an Independent Counsel is governed by Federal Law. Specifically Title 28 U.S.C. Chapter 40 sections 591 through 599.

I wonder what is so different about the bill being pushed forward to protect the special counsel? For months the media has been reporting that Trump is on verge of firing the special counsel. Now congress is acting on this news in the most political fashion. Makes me wonder if either of them have ever read Title 28 U.S.C. Chapter 40 sections 591 through 599.

I do know a few politicians are saying its not a necessary in that the above U.S.C. already protects the S.C.


edit: found it (I think) alb17686

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...f-ef9e07670001

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

One look at any of the maps that go by county, shows why Donald Trump is and should be President. The country very clearly went red, and only certain cities went Blue.

You seem to be missing one salient point, which is that most of those red counties don't have any people in them. Well, a few of course, but the fact is that most of the people live in those cities you deride. A good example is Utah, where I live. The state is 70% Mormon, and therefore theoretically 70% Conservative. The problem is that one little blue swath by the Great Salt Lake. More than half the state's population live in just three metro areas, and the largest, Salt Lake City, has just the opposite demographic - it's predominantly Liberal. If the states weren't mostly all-or-nothing the map would be far different. And no, the states have not always been all-or-nothing.

Hence the Electoral College and why we have it.

You need to study history more. The Electoral College was created specifically because the Founders didn't want the people voting for President at all. The EC was to be appointed by the States " in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct..." They don't seem to have conceived of the States actually inviting the people to vote for the electors.

This was a landslide of which we haven't seen in a good long time in this country.

Landslide? How do you figure that. Clinton actually won the popular vote. Cite the Electoral College all you like, the simple fact is that more people wanted her to be President than wanted Trump. In the EC Trump won by a margin of 56%-42%. That's big, even impressive. If you want to see a real landslide look at 1940, when Franklin Roosevelt beat Alf Landon by 523-8, or 98%-2%.

I understand that, like a lot of people, you're more concerned with your side winning than with actually discussing the issues, but if Trump being elected made you proud I'd say your standards are rather on the low side.

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Slyguy3129

Yes, he can, you answered it in your own post. The AG can fire him, and the President can direct the AG to fire him..

No I refuted it. The President still does not have the authority to fire an Independent Counsel. You are correct that the President can systematically start firing AG down the line, but it still takes the AG or the acting AG to fire an Independent Counsel. The President still can't fire one himself.

And certainly the judicial branch can override any inappropriate firing based on appeal.

[August]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

...if Trump being elected made you proud I'd say your standards are rather on the low side.

Low side? You gonna call him a deplorable next there Cankles?

[August]

Hey just read that the IG has made a criminal referral against McCabe.

Excellent!