Unnarmed 17 year old shot dead "in self defence"

CaptainMattJ. · 03-19-12, 05:35 PM

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/19/...nse-or-racism/

Absolutely despicable.

Dowly · 03-19-12, 06:08 PM

Yeah, just read about this yesterday. The 911 tapes are chilling to listen.

EDIT: Think the link in the article for the tapes is missing the 2nd call?

Anywho, you can listen to it here:
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...nford-shooting

Platapus · 03-19-12, 06:59 PM

This sounds like an example of a person getting two separate roles mixed up.

First, this man was a member of a neighbourhood watch. As such his responsibility is to report stuff to the police. That is the limit of his responsibilty. His "tools" are a cell phone, flashlight, and perhaps a digital camera.

Separate from this, the guy also was authorized to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Self defense, not law enforcement.

I think he got the roles confused. Even though Florida has a version of "castle doctrine (which I feel is poorly worded), castle doctrine does not apply to neighbourhood watches.

Florida Statute Title 56, section 776.012 states

Quote:

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if

1)***8195;He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2)***8195;Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

section 776.013 refers to when you are in your house or vehicle.

It would be up to this guy to prove that he had reasonable belief that he was in danger of "imminent death" or "great bodily harm" or that there was an "imminent commission of a forcible Felony underway.

Florida Statute Title 56, section 776.031 states

Quote:

Use of force in defense of others.—A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on, or other tortious or criminal interference with, either real property other than a dwelling or personal property, lawfully in his or her possession or in the possession of another who is a member of his or her immediate family or household or of a person whose property he or she has a legal duty to protect. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person does not have a duty to retreat if the person is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

I don't think a member of a neighbourhood watch has a "legal duty to protect". Additionally this guy would have to prove that deadly force was necessary to prevent "imminent commission" of a forcible felony. Section 776.08 defines a forcible Felony.

If his neighbourhood watch is like others I have been associated with (Nebraska), members were not allowed to carry weapons. Probably for this very reason. If his neighbourhood watch has a similar rule, he will lose the protection of being an agent of the neighbourhood watch.

As a responsible gun owner, I don't think this guy acted responsibly. His responsibility was to call the police and then be ready to assist the police with a full and accurate report. While all the facts are still not in, I am afraid this might be a case of a John Wayne wannabe making a tragic mistake.

I heard on the news (so it MUST be true) that this individual has a history of making false police reports. We may have a buckaroo here.

gimpy117 · 03-19-12, 09:55 PM

and this is why im for gun control, because of stupid people. normal people are okay, but wanna be trigger happy cops are a good reason why we need to keep guns out of morons hands

Buddahaid · 03-19-12, 10:16 PM

That is an example of gun control as he had a permit to carry. Stupid people become doctors and presidents too.

BossMark · 03-20-12, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gimpy117

and this is why im for gun control, because of stupid people. normal people are okay, but wanna be trigger happy cops are a good reason why we need to keep guns out of morons hands

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

That is an example of gun control as he had a permit to carry. Stupid people become doctors and presidents too.

I agree with both of you.

Stealhead · 03-19-12, 10:34 PM

Sounds to me like this Zimmerman was a bit an overzealous fellow and the Sanford Police kind of let him play his pretend to be a cop game.You can not say for sure but the 17 year old has no record of trouble at all why would he suddenly act violently something seems off.It sounds like this Zimmerman was convinced the boy was doing wrong and chased after him this man is not a Law Enforcement Officer and he was advised to stay in his vehicle "The police will handle it".

I think he approached the kid and somehow it got violent and the boy gets shot.From what I understand there where several witnesses that seemed to conflict with Zimmerman's claims I heard one of the 911 tapes on the radio on it you can very clearly hear a young man screaming for help no way that voice is coming from Zimmerman very disturbing.

Why did Zimmerman pursue this kid? It is clear that he was not armed in any manner Zimmerman could easily have just followed the kid in his car and wait for the police to show up problem if any solved.He also has been arrested for battery on a police officer and the Sanford Police trust this guys word?

Why do the police say he Zimmerman has a clean record even though he had been arrested before that is not a clean record.I think the Police tolerated Zimmerman because he had reported actual robberies before and though perhaps over overzealous (41 calls to the police in 3 months really?) they likely did not think that he would get involved in a highly questionable incident.

According to CNN I saw while flipping though the channels that the watch program Zimmerman is/was a member is not a part of the national system.I am pretty sure that they are not supposed to carry weapons.I think this is a case of an overzealous person with an itchy trigger finger and misunderstanding of laws.The no retreat applies only your home/residence or in or immediately around your vehicle not in a public location.

I understand that Florida Department of Law Enforcement is now investigating which implies that they feel that the Sanford Police are not doing a very good job.

03-19-12, 05:35 PM	#1
CaptainMattJ. The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sin City Posts: 1,364 Downloads: 55 Uploads: 0	Unnarmed 17 year old shot dead "in self defence" http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/03/19/...nse-or-racism/ Absolutely despicable. __________________ A popular Government without popular information nor the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives - James Madison

03-19-12, 09:55 PM	#4
gimpy117 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Kalamazoo, MI Posts: 3,243 Downloads: 108 Uploads: 0	and this is why im for gun control, because of stupid people. normal people are okay, but wanna be trigger happy cops are a good reason why we need to keep guns out of morons hands __________________ Member of the Subsim Zombie Army

03-19-12, 10:16 PM	#5
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 8,561 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	That is an example of gun control as he had a permit to carry. Stupid people become doctors and presidents too. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

03-19-12, 06:08 PM	#2
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,005 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Yeah, just read about this yesterday. The 911 tapes are chilling to listen. EDIT: Think the link in the article for the tapes is missing the 2nd call? Anywho, you can listen to it here: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news...nford-shooting

03-19-12, 10:34 PM	#7
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Sounds to me like this Zimmerman was a bit an overzealous fellow and the Sanford Police kind of let him play his pretend to be a cop game.You can not say for sure but the 17 year old has no record of trouble at all why would he suddenly act violently something seems off.It sounds like this Zimmerman was convinced the boy was doing wrong and chased after him this man is not a Law Enforcement Officer and he was advised to stay in his vehicle "The police will handle it". I think he approached the kid and somehow it got violent and the boy gets shot.From what I understand there where several witnesses that seemed to conflict with Zimmerman's claims I heard one of the 911 tapes on the radio on it you can very clearly hear a young man screaming for help no way that voice is coming from Zimmerman very disturbing. Why did Zimmerman pursue this kid? It is clear that he was not armed in any manner Zimmerman could easily have just followed the kid in his car and wait for the police to show up problem if any solved.He also has been arrested for battery on a police officer and the Sanford Police trust this guys word? Why do the police say he Zimmerman has a clean record even though he had been arrested before that is not a clean record.I think the Police tolerated Zimmerman because he had reported actual robberies before and though perhaps over overzealous (41 calls to the police in 3 months really?) they likely did not think that he would get involved in a highly questionable incident. According to CNN I saw while flipping though the channels that the watch program Zimmerman is/was a member is not a part of the national system.I am pretty sure that they are not supposed to carry weapons.I think this is a case of an overzealous person with an itchy trigger finger and misunderstanding of laws.The no retreat applies only your home/residence or in or immediately around your vehicle not in a public location. I understand that Florida Department of Law Enforcement is now investigating which implies that they feel that the Sanford Police are not doing a very good job.