Unnarmed 17 year old shot dead "in self defence" - Page 3

03-20-12, 07:49 PM

Skittles and an Iced Tea.

And one wonders why the FBI is involved since the local "Hero's" decided the Gun Man was such a nice Guy?

Cops all over the U.S. should be throwing up right now worried about thier behinds because of this situation.

Rockstar · 03-20-12, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribesman

well that wouldn't be very clever.

well I never said I was a rocket scientist.

Quote:

Simple question Rockstar.
Run through the parties which requested the involvement at federal level and see how many you can get before you see why exactly the feds are obliged to be involved in this.

I know many just as I am are angry and clamoring to see justice served here. However I can't agree with a knee jerk reaction to get the fed involved when there is as far as i can see no true interest served. Especially as I mentioned earlier the state prosecution case has barely take off yet. If FDLE and the state of Florida cannot or refuses to do there job according to the law. Then yes the fed should get involved but until that time let the State do its job.

This idea the FBI needs to get involved immediately is for the birds especially from political pressure. May as well just abolish state borders and rights and form one big Amerika with FBI offices everywhere and a president for life.

And people wonder and complain why the federal government is so big, they ask for it every time.

oh well

Stealhead · 03-20-12, 08:10 PM

Of the friends and family members that I know who are cops they do not put any person with a record involving violence towards cops very high on their trust worthy list Zimmerman has a record of battery on a police officer yet some Sanford cops trust him strange.

Of course I have not heard many very good things about certain local law enforcement agencies in my part of FL.This information comes from former and some active officers.One county which I will not name but a rather famous beach is located there as well as a race track famous has a really bad reputation .

03-20-12, 08:18 PM

I don't think it was a knee jerk reaction.

Tapes to 911, calling the Guy clean when he had a record, letting him walk away from a killing?
Do you smell what's cooking?

It SCREAMS cover up or mis-conduct!!

Yes the FBI should jump all over that area with hard soled boots!!
It's so bad that even the News people look good in this case!!
And THAT'S BAD!!!

It's so bad even I won't try to find a joke in it!!!
The "Hero's" done that for me sadly!!

Rockstar · 03-20-12, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Of the friends and family members that I know who are cops they do not put any person with a record involving violence towards cops very high on their trust worthy list Zimmerman has a record of battery on a police officer yet some Sanford cops trust him strange.

Of course I have not heard many very good things about certain local law enforcement agencies in my part of FL.This information comes from former and some active officers.One county which I will not name but a rather famous beach is located there as well as a race track famous has a really bad reputation .

Privateer, Sanford PD is not the only state law enforcement agency down there. The state has other means to investigate them and the crime.

I know I said I'm not for the immediate involvement of the FBI. But I worked in Florida a long time. It's probably only a matter of time before you see them down there on official business investigating.

03-20-12, 08:32 PM

Yep, there are others down there.
But like many places? Good Ole boys run the roost.
They have failed to do something which is going National in scope.
That's not a valid way to handle things.
Should a riot break out in say L.A. is it OK that they dragged thier feet?

And what about ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT?
Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment.

What Local Agency would actually follow up on that?
Nope.
The Feds need to go in stomping Boots on this one.
If they don't? All Hell will break loose because of some 'Good Ole Boys' network.

August · 03-20-12, 08:40 PM

It is kind of curious that the Feds have opened their own investigation so quickly. My guess is that this is a fishing expedition to make the state republican administration look bad during an election year and won't amount to much in seeing actual justice done for the victim.

On the other hand I think the state has a special obligation to ensure that criminals don't hide behind the law, especially a law written to protect the peoples liberty. If they're not about done with their investigation into the killing or the coverup and ready to hand down indictments then they need to have the feds light a fire under their butts.

AngusJS · 03-20-12, 09:15 PM

I'm so glad we live in an armed society. I feel so safe, knowing that nuts like Zimmerman are running around with guns.

yubba · 03-20-12, 09:47 PM

I live on the coast of florida, and there isn't a day that goes by, I see on the morning news that, are one or two shootings, at least one leading too death, due to robberys, home invasions, drug deals gone wrong, arguements and a host of other crap in central florida, we just buried a female deputy sherriff last week here in Bervard County, some young black kid stealing furniture from a hotel shot her in the face, like I said before more americans die here in central florida than any war zone. If the Fed does come down here they need to take a good look at their welfare state that they have created.

August · 03-20-12, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusJS

I'm so glad we live in an armed society. I feel so safe, knowing that nuts like Zimmerman are running around with guns.

You could always move to a more civilized country like France and get mowed down by a masked scooter rider.

Stealhead · 03-20-12, 10:31 PM

Funny you should say that because there have been numerous shooting sprees in the US of equally bad or worse proportions and it seems that the fact in the US in many states that someone else might have a concealed carry weapon seems to have little bearing on the attackers thought process.

The super hard core everyone should carry a gun types try to say "oh if only more people could carry guns this kind of thing would not happen". More like it would have no effect if some nut is gong to run around shooting people as in France or in Arizona they are going to run around shooting people.

It is really disappointing when we are talking about a case that is clearly very questionable where someone went past the law regarding self defense and yet you still see people wanting to argue why people need more guns and less regulation and you have an example in your face of someone that should at least not have had a conceal carry permit in my opinion anything on your record involving trouble with law enforcement should keep you at least from gaining a carry permit.

I am a gun owner myself and this incident disgusts me.Too bad this Zimmerman did not try this on me because he'd have been facing a gun.

August · 03-20-12, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Funny you should say that because there have been numerous shooting sprees in the US of equally bad or worse proportions and it seems that the fact in the US in many states that someone else might have a concealed carry weapon seems to have little bearing on the attackers thought process.

Really? How do you calculate those who are dissuaded from committing a crime because their potential victim may be armed?

Quote:

The super hard core everyone should carry a gun types try to say "oh if only more people could carry guns this kind of thing would not happen". More like it would have no effect if some nut is gong to run around shooting people as in France or in Arizona they are going to run around shooting people.

I'd say its really more like if victims are armed they're not as easily killed by some nut who is going to be able to get a gun regardless of whatever law you enact.

Quote:

It is really disappointing when we are talking about a case that is clearly very questionable where someone went past the law regarding self defense and yet you still see people wanting to argue why people need more guns and less regulation and you have an example in your face of someone that should at least not have had a conceal carry permit in my opinion anything on your record involving trouble with law enforcement should keep you at least from gaining a carry permit.

I haven't seen anyone argue for more guns and less regulation here in this thread so I have to wonder who you are talking about.

Aramike · 03-20-12, 11:06 PM

The topic slightly aside, I've never completely understood why gun crime has always inevitably led to a gun control discussion. If someone owns a gun legally or not, USING it illegally is still ILLEGAL. Ergo, what makes anyone think that those who would break laws regarding gun usage would simply follow laws regarding gun possession?

People should have the right to choose to be able to defend themselves with a firearm. I believe that 100%. However, they should also be held accountable when they engage in violence against others that is not in defense. Whether or not they are allowed to LEGALLY possess the capability shouldn't be the issue, because hey - if they are willing to commit murder, why wouldn't they be willing to illegally own a gun?

It's an age-old argument, but it's completely true - banning firearms only disarms law-abiding citizens. The individual in question may turn out to not be such a citizen.

Sailor Steve · 03-20-12, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngusJS

I'm so glad we live in an armed society. I feel so safe, knowing that nuts like Zimmerman are running around with guns.

How magnanimous of you to turn a tragedy into yet another gun control argument. In some cases a gun really is an answer, deterrent, solution. In others, not so much.

Oh, is this just a drive-by troll, or do you have something useful to add?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The super hard core everyone should carry a gun types try to say "oh if only more people could carry guns this kind of thing would not happen". More like it would have no effect if some nut is gong to run around shooting people as in France or in Arizona they are going to run around shooting people.

I am a gun owner myself and this incident disgusts me.Too bad this Zimmerman did not try this on me because he'd have been facing a gun.

Interesting dance. On one hand you take people to task for insisting that more guns are the answer (when, as August pointed out, no one in this thread has done that), but on the other hand you say that you wish he had tried it on you because you have a gun. So, more gun ownership is not the answer but you having one is?

Stealhead · 03-20-12, 11:28 PM

I though my point was more clear Steve.I am saying the requirements to be allowed to obtain a concealed carry permit should be much stricter.A person should no criminal record and they really should be evaluated for any possible physiological issues and there should be a much more extensive course training a person what they can and can not do legally as is most states it takes an afternoon.

I am saying that this Zimmerman seems to be so aggressive in his actions that he could easily have gotten into a gun vs. gun situation with a person that was following the self defense laws to the T unlike Zimmerman.And for the record i do have a conceal carry and I do carry when I am working in certain areas of the state I work in refrigeration as well so it not outside the realm of possibility that someone could attempt to rob me to gain the several thousand dollars in tools,refrigeration tanks and large amounts of copper that my truck contains(I do not have the gun on me while on private property I lock it away in the truck inside a case.) nor is it impossible that some overzealous nut see me doing my job and think that I am about to commit a crime seeing as people in my industry work in places where most people ought not be.Of course I am half white and half Iranian Lor and thank god I appear white and not like a "rag head" becuase there are some nut jobs that probably would shoot me under certain circumstances if I did look more stereo typically "rag headish".

03-20-12, 08:40 PM	#37
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,682 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It is kind of curious that the Feds have opened their own investigation so quickly. My guess is that this is a fishing expedition to make the state republican administration look bad during an election year and won't amount to much in seeing actual justice done for the victim. On the other hand I think the state has a special obligation to ensure that criminals don't hide behind the law, especially a law written to protect the peoples liberty. If they're not about done with their investigation into the killing or the coverup and ready to hand down indictments then they need to have the feds light a fire under their butts. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

03-20-12, 10:31 PM	#41
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Funny you should say that because there have been numerous shooting sprees in the US of equally bad or worse proportions and it seems that the fact in the US in many states that someone else might have a concealed carry weapon seems to have little bearing on the attackers thought process. The super hard core everyone should carry a gun types try to say "oh if only more people could carry guns this kind of thing would not happen". More like it would have no effect if some nut is gong to run around shooting people as in France or in Arizona they are going to run around shooting people. It is really disappointing when we are talking about a case that is clearly very questionable where someone went past the law regarding self defense and yet you still see people wanting to argue why people need more guns and less regulation and you have an example in your face of someone that should at least not have had a conceal carry permit in my opinion anything on your record involving trouble with law enforcement should keep you at least from gaining a carry permit. I am a gun owner myself and this incident disgusts me.Too bad this Zimmerman did not try this on me because he'd have been facing a gun. Last edited by Stealhead; 03-20-12 at 10:42 PM.

03-20-12, 07:49 PM	#31
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Skittles and an Iced Tea. And one wonders why the FBI is involved since the local "Hero's" decided the Gun Man was such a nice Guy? Cops all over the U.S. should be throwing up right now worried about thier behinds because of this situation.

03-20-12, 08:10 PM	#33
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Of the friends and family members that I know who are cops they do not put any person with a record involving violence towards cops very high on their trust worthy list Zimmerman has a record of battery on a police officer yet some Sanford cops trust him strange. Of course I have not heard many very good things about certain local law enforcement agencies in my part of FL.This information comes from former and some active officers.One county which I will not name but a rather famous beach is located there as well as a race track famous has a really bad reputation .

03-20-12, 08:18 PM	#34
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I don't think it was a knee jerk reaction. Tapes to 911, calling the Guy clean when he had a record, letting him walk away from a killing? Do you smell what's cooking? It SCREAMS cover up or mis-conduct!! Yes the FBI should jump all over that area with hard soled boots!! It's so bad that even the News people look good in this case!! And THAT'S BAD!!! It's so bad even I won't try to find a joke in it!!! The "Hero's" done that for me sadly!!

03-20-12, 08:32 PM	#36
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Yep, there are others down there. But like many places? Good Ole boys run the roost. They have failed to do something which is going National in scope. That's not a valid way to handle things. Should a riot break out in say L.A. is it OK that they dragged thier feet? And what about ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT? Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. What Local Agency would actually follow up on that? Nope. The Feds need to go in stomping Boots on this one. If they don't? All Hell will break loose because of some 'Good Ole Boys' network.

03-20-12, 09:15 PM	#38
AngusJS Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 746 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	I'm so glad we live in an armed society. I feel so safe, knowing that nuts like Zimmerman are running around with guns.

03-20-12, 09:47 PM	#39
yubba Admiral Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: in a neighborhood near you Posts: 2,478 Downloads: 293 Uploads: 2	I live on the coast of florida, and there isn't a day that goes by, I see on the morning news that, are one or two shootings, at least one leading too death, due to robberys, home invasions, drug deals gone wrong, arguements and a host of other crap in central florida, we just buried a female deputy sherriff last week here in Bervard County, some young black kid stealing furniture from a hotel shot her in the face, like I said before more americans die here in central florida than any war zone. If the Fed does come down here they need to take a good look at their welfare state that they have created.

03-20-12, 11:06 PM	#43
Aramike Ocean Warrior Best of SUBSIM Chairman Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 3,207 Downloads: 59 Uploads: 0	The topic slightly aside, I've never completely understood why gun crime has always inevitably led to a gun control discussion. If someone owns a gun legally or not, USING it illegally is still ILLEGAL. Ergo, what makes anyone think that those who would break laws regarding gun usage would simply follow laws regarding gun possession? People should have the right to choose to be able to defend themselves with a firearm. I believe that 100%. However, they should also be held accountable when they engage in violence against others that is not in defense. Whether or not they are allowed to LEGALLY possess the capability shouldn't be the issue, because hey - if they are willing to commit murder, why wouldn't they be willing to illegally own a gun? It's an age-old argument, but it's completely true - banning firearms only disarms law-abiding citizens. The individual in question may turn out to not be such a citizen.

03-20-12, 11:28 PM	#45
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	I though my point was more clear Steve.I am saying the requirements to be allowed to obtain a concealed carry permit should be much stricter.A person should no criminal record and they really should be evaluated for any possible physiological issues and there should be a much more extensive course training a person what they can and can not do legally as is most states it takes an afternoon. I am saying that this Zimmerman seems to be so aggressive in his actions that he could easily have gotten into a gun vs. gun situation with a person that was following the self defense laws to the T unlike Zimmerman.And for the record i do have a conceal carry and I do carry when I am working in certain areas of the state I work in refrigeration as well so it not outside the realm of possibility that someone could attempt to rob me to gain the several thousand dollars in tools,refrigeration tanks and large amounts of copper that my truck contains(I do not have the gun on me while on private property I lock it away in the truck inside a case.) nor is it impossible that some overzealous nut see me doing my job and think that I am about to commit a crime seeing as people in my industry work in places where most people ought not be.Of course I am half white and half Iranian Lor and thank god I appear white and not like a "rag head" becuase there are some nut jobs that probably would shoot me under certain circumstances if I did look more stereo typically "rag headish".