How did real-life U-boat captains work?

[somedude88]

I brought a few books about real U-boat captains and experiences but just to gather as much info from as many sources as I could I would like to ask any resident expert on the matter of how real U-boat captains operated during WW2.

And this is mostly off the cuff-train of thought- knee jerk questioning so they won't be particularly well thought out questions, but it's more out of curiosity than just plain research.

How did captains perform evasive maneuvers during depth-charge attacks? Did they stand by the Hydrophone operator and give out orders from there whenever the operator heard the signature splashes of the depth charge? I know they didn't use periscopes to spot the charges like you could in SHIII because the water was so murky in the Atlantic. Did they solely depend on the hydrophones to evade depth charge attacks? Did they start performing the maneuver before the charges were dropped? What did they do if the hydrophones became damaged and no longer usable? Later in the war when Destroyer escorts were equipped with those listening devices that were so powerful, they could hear someone on the U-boat coughing or sneezing, how did the captain or the crew for that matter, communicate? Hand signals?

Thanks for answering.

[Commander Wallace]

As you said, there are people here who are well read in regard to U-boats and tactics and will most likely know the answers. I would think if a U-boat or WW2 submarine were under attack or in danger of being detected, they would engage in evasive action, initiate silent running and communicate quietly if needed, hand gestures included.

That's supposition on my part though. I'm guessing the questions are part of your efforts in making a U-boat management-style game as you mentioned in "WW2 Sub sim game vs. RL U-boat captain ". http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=228700


If that's the case, best wishes to you and in it's development.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm sure there will be others who can correct me, especially since this is all from memory. I've read and heard things over the years, but I can't point to specific sources in this case. I'm going to try anyway.

Originally Posted by somedude88

How did captains perform evasive maneuvers during depth-charge attacks? Did they stand by the Hydrophone operator and give out orders from there whenever the operator heard the signature splashes of the depth charge?

They depended on the hydrophones for keeping track of the attacking ships. Hearing a depth charge hit the water is difficult with a directional 'phone, as it needs to be pointed right at the source, which is a matter of luck. Then static, or non-directional hydrophones can tell you when a charge is dropped, but not the direction.

I know they didn't use periscopes to spot the charges like you could in SHIII because the water was so murky in the Atlantic. Did they solely depend on the hydrophones to evade depth charge attacks? Did they start performing the maneuver before the charges were dropped?

The Sonar and hydrophones of an attacking destroyer were limited to about 45 degrees downward, which means that the actual drop was "blind". It's my understanding that the captain would wait until he could hear the destroyer's propellers through the hull, then change direction depth and speed on the assumption that the drop would be aimed at where they were, and since the destroyer could not listed straight down or behind, it was safe to make noise for a minute or so. Of course if there was more than one attacker that became a problem.

What did they do if the hydrophones became damaged and no longer usable?

Guess.

Later in the war when Destroyer escorts were equipped with those listening devices that were so powerful, they could hear someone on the U-boat coughing or sneezing, how did the captain or the crew for that matter, communicate? Hand signals?

No one in World War 2 had a listening device that good. They could hear pumps running aboard the boat, but that was because the pumps made just as much noise as the turning propellers. The biggest improvements in Allied sound technology was the development of a Sonar that could work at 18-20 knots, so the escorts no longer had to creep along at 12 knots hoping not to lose the signal. The biggest threat to the submarine was active Sonar, which worked no matter how slow the sub was moving.

What changed the ASW war was the development of the so-called Hunter/Killer tactics developed by Johnny Walker, in which a specially trained group would spread out and comb the area where they thought the U-boat might be. When one of them made contact, rather than attack he would become the "Hunter", slowing down to match speeds with the sub and guiding the "Killers" in for the attack. This was made even better with the advent of the escort carrier, which allowed aircraft to spot shallow subs and force them to go deep, which meant they could not fight back at all.

The biggest technological break came with things like hedgehog, which were fired forward of the ship and only exploded on contact. With that, an escort could keep the sub in front of him and never lose contact unless one of them hit, in which case it didn't matter if contact was lost or not.

by late 1943 the U-boat war was pretty much over.

[somedude88]

No one in World War 2 had a listening device that good. They could hear pumps running aboard the boat, but that was because the pumps made just as much noise as the turning propellers. The biggest improvements in Allied sound technology was the development of a Sonar that could work at 18-20 knots, so the escorts no longer had to creep along at 12 knots hoping not to lose the signal. The biggest threat to the submarine was active Sonar, which worked no matter how slow the sub was moving.

I remembered hearing that U-boat crewmen risked being charged with treason if they coughed when destroyers were searching for them? I guess I misremembered or something.

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by somedude88

I remembered hearing that U-boat crewmen risked being charged with treason if they coughed when destroyers were searching for them? I guess I misremembered or something.

I've never heard that, which doesn't mean it didn't happen. I don't know.

[somedude88]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I've never heard that, which doesn't mean it didn't happen. I don't know.

Perhaps they simply believed that Allied equipment had such abilities when in reality it wasn't true. They were losing the war hand over fist at that point and the lives of dozens of sailors were at stake, a bit of over caution and paranoia were sure to be rampant.

[somedude88]

Another question: Was it common practice for German submariners to be trained in multiple stations and was it the Captain's decision of what stations they would be proficient at? Secondly, when a Captain decided to have a sailor train in a different station, did they train that sailor out at sea during patrols or did they have to wait until they reached home base and then train them there?

Thanks for the reply!

[somedude88]

What did the Captain of the U-boat wear? I've seen them in their dress uniforms, but I have trouble imagining them wearing that while out at sea. The conditions in the U-boat during operations were not ideal, after hearing that it can smell of exhaust, diesel, rancid body odor and humid if not just uncomfortably warm and the air can get stale after a few hours submerged. Did they wear similar clothing to what the rest of the crew wore?

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted by somedude88

What did the Captain of the U-boat wear? I've seen them in their dress uniforms, but I have trouble imagining them wearing that while out at sea. The conditions in the U-boat during operations were not ideal, after hearing that it can smell of exhaust, diesel, rancid body odor and humid if not just uncomfortably warm and the air can get stale after a few hours submerged. Did they wear similar clothing to what the rest of the crew wore?

Did you ever saw Das Boot?
In a serious note: there are several books, that are consistently of photos of u-boats, just the sub, crews and the sub, just the crews, etc.
I can recommend this ones:

U-BOAT WAR PATROL - The Hidden Photographic Diary of U-564 (Teddy Suhren), the German U-Boat Ace series (several commanders) and

Another Place, Another Time: A U-boat Officer's Wartime Album (not of a u-boat commander, but of a Chief Engineer).

From what I read and saw of the several books, they use normal clothes/duty uniforms, after Dunkirk (I think) they also began to use English naval duty uniforms that were capture, the brown 2 chest pockets shirts and trousers, etc.
I know that the officers had the leather deck jackets (some with the rank stripes others not); 3/4 leathers jackets and also use possible wool cloth and leather trousers.
Since the conditions during patrol were what they were, they also could relax and use what they wanted.
From the books I read it ofReinhard "Teddy" Suhren and saw, they also could be in the u-boat tower only in pants/boxers and he said that "one can only sleep well in pyjamas" and he did sleep with them and one time had to come up to the tower in pyjama.

[August]

Originally Posted by somedude88

Another question: Was it common practice for German submariners to be trained in multiple stations and was it the Captain's decision of what stations they would be proficient at? Secondly, when a Captain decided to have a sailor train in a different station, did they train that sailor out at sea during patrols or did they have to wait until they reached home base and then train them there?

Thanks for the reply!

Cross training is a universal military practice designed to minimize the impact of casualties. Every job from cook to captain has a backup. While the Captain oversees everything aboard ship it would normally be the Executive Officer working with the NCO's who managed the details. Cross training can be either or both pre-voyage formal training as well as "On the Job" training as the tactical situation dictates.

[somedude88]

What was the most damage a u-boat as ever taken and survived? I tried googling it but it only showed me images of some pretty ****ed up U-boats and the story of u-505. Theoretically, what could it survive? Could it survive with one completely flooded non-essential (so NOT the control room or the engine room) compartment? Could it remain submerged with such damage or would it require prolonged surface time?

Also, U-505 was severely damaged by a 250kg bomb from an airplane, what was the most damage a U-boat took and survived, by depth charge/underwater munitions?

Thanks for all those that have replied and will reply so far!

[Von Due]

I'm not sure how one would compare damage. For one thing, what might be, structurally, a minor damage at 10 meters depth, might be critical at 40 meters and all destructive at 70 meters. So, a u boat near the surface could in theory take a whole lot more damage than a u boat deeper down and survive while the deeper diving one is destroyed from less damage.

[somedude88]

Originally Posted by Von Due

I'm not sure how one would compare damage. For one thing, what might be, structurally, a minor damage at 10 meters depth, might be critical at 40 meters and all destructive at 70 meters. So, a u boat near the surface could in theory take a whole lot more damage than a u boat deeper down and survive while the deeper diving one is destroyed from less damage.

That's true...

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by somedude88

What was the most damage a u-boat as ever taken and survived? I tried googling it but it only showed me images of some pretty ****ed up U-boats and the story of u-505. Theoretically, what could it survive? Could it survive with one completely flooded non-essential (so NOT the control room or the engine room) compartment? Could it remain submerged with such damage or would it require prolonged surface time?

Also, U-505 was severely damaged by a 250kg bomb from an airplane, what was the most damage a U-boat took and survived, by depth charge/underwater munitions?

Thanks for all those that have replied and will reply so far!

http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/u505_modifications_colours_insignia.pdf pg. 5 (photo): that's awful battle damage! It was assessed as the most damaged boat to ever return for repairs. Rommel himself came to see the damage.

[somedude88]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/u505_modifications_colours_insignia.pdf pg. 5 (photo): that's awful battle damage! It was assessed as the most damaged boat to ever return for repairs. Rommel himself came to see the damage.

Holy ****! They fired a torpedo and it circled around and hit the sub it was fired from? How often did this happen?!