Chinese sub gets inside US Fleet

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

If I remember something I read about US carriers, their purpose is to be able to project US power and influence anywhere in the world when and where needed.

But listening to you guys what you're saying about carriers being vulnerable and not much more than targets has a ring of truth to it. It's not the "cold war" anymore and most of these ships and the reason for their creation was to fight a war or battle that doesn't exist anymore. Same with the new breed of SSN's....the Virginia class. They were designed to do what the Seawolf and LA class weren't. Fight a littoral battle in the enemies front and back yard. I've also read somewhere that the Seawolf SSN is already just about obsolete. Not to mention much more expensive to build then the Virginia.

With these quiet, modern diesel subs being sold to everyone and their granny, our enemies, especially our carrier enemies will only get worse. I'm surprised something hasn't happened already. Not that the Navy or the Pentagon would ever admit to it.

You pretty much nailed it as a Diesel electric sub in many cases can remain as quiet as an open grave. Looking at them as a launch platform, they can employ modern long range torpedoes and cruise missiles making them formidable adversaries.

[Skybird]

Ships and boats with nuclear drives can outrun them, however. Regarding destroying military naval targets, SSNs are more lurkers, not stalkers, and certainly no sprinters. They either need good intel and planning ahead so to have the time needed to get into the right place where to sit and wait, or simply good luck. At what speeds is a carrier group moving usually? 25 knots? Only to force enemy submarines making more noise, or break contact, being left behind

[Onkel Neal]

I bet that Chinese sub skipper got a promotion!

This seems to happen every so often, also see In 2015, a 30 Year Old French Nuclear Submarine 'Sank' a US Aircraft Carrier

I bet when a US task force begins operations there is a queue of subs waiting to sneak in.

[CaptainCruise]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Ships and boats with nuclear drives can outrun them, however. Regarding destroying military naval targets, SSNs are more lurkers, not stalkers, and certainly no sprinters. They either need good intel and planning ahead so to have the time needed to get into the right place where to sit and wait, or simply good luck. At what speeds is a carrier group moving usually? 25 knots? Only to force enemy submarines making more noise, or break contact, being left behind

Granted, any diesel sub caught behind the group in the wrong place would have to burn to try to get into a shooting spot and assuming they wouldn't have the speed needed to do it, they would probably be detected in the process.

BUT......what if a modern enemy diesel sub had the correct intel on a US carrier group operations and managed to get to the right place and just sit and wait? It could creep along at bare steerageway and stay as quiet as that open......hole someone mentioned. That's all the good luck they would probably need.

BTW.....speaking of diesel subs being bought and sold, which subs are they buying? I remember the Kilo being a popular choice. What else is on the market?

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

BTW.....speaking of diesel subs being bought and sold, which subs are they buying? I remember the Kilo being a popular choice. What else is on the market?

Bulding submarines is a highly specialised industrial task which needs a lot of knowledge and longtime experience, therefore you have only a small number of nations building and selling them.

For conventional submarines (SS), these are Russia, France, Sweden, Netherlands, China (not exporting, as far as I know, but they build their own designs in SSN and SS now), and of course Germany. Germany has just signed a deal over three more subs with Israel, Germany also pays one third of the costs (which i do not like, they can buy our boats, but I do not want Germany to pay subventions for it).

Britain and America have given up their former expertise on Diesel submarines. They have an exclusive fetish for SSNs .

[vanjast]

Had the same thing here, where the SA navy sent a tape recording to the US embassy, of the US fleet passing, overhead a lurking SA Sub (that's at a time before we had 'captains' run our subs into the seabed ).

It's an international sport amongst submariners... to get noted.

[Catfish]

As a chinese, I would not have "popped up" but staid in silence

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

You pretty much nailed it as a Diesel electric sub in many cases can remain as quiet as an open grave. Looking at them as a launch platform, they can employ modern long range torpedoes and cruise missiles making them formidable adversaries.

Is that noisier than a closed grave?

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Platapus

Is that noisier than a closed grave?

One would think since a closed grave needs to be dug thus generating noise that an open grave would be quieter.