U-581

[August]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Roll my eyes every time as well.
I know this is common (naming) practice in the US, and maybe elsewhere, but it doesn't make much sense in the end I think.
I mean, we could also speak about Democrat m4 Shermans then... But we don't, because designating a military craft after the countries political course is just silly.

Originally Posted by eddie

From what I understand from a friend in Germany who knows a lot of Luftwaffe history, that many pilots hated seeing the swastika on the tail of their aircraft. Including Galland. To them it was a political symbol, nothing more.

I can understand their irritation I'd be bummed to have the Obama O or Hillary H painted on my tail section as I imagine you would be by being forced to fly a Trump symbol. But the difference is that those are not official symbols of our nation whereas the swastika was the official symbol of Germany during those years.

In the German marking custom tail markings indicate governmental ownership. The the nazi swastika replaced the WW1 Imperial cross (not sure if the Weimar Republic even had an Airforce) symbol of the Kaiser,


and it was replaced in turn by the modern German Goverments 3 color national flag marking.



Note that the wing and fuselage markings have remained more or less the same. A black cross in those places means that it's a German aircraft regardless of era. The markings on the tail however always indicate what German government owned it, same as the flag that flew from a U-boat conning tower so in a sense it's a kindness to the Germans that we refer to the machines used to try and dominate the world by those who sent them rather than the nationality of the soldiers and sailors that manned them.

Sorry for rambling, it's a subject that has always interested me.

[ValoWay]

Von Manstein wrote after the war that Hermann Göring shortly before the attack on Poland was holding a speech where he complained that compared to the 'Luftwaffe' or 'Kriegsmarine' the 'Wehrmacht' apparently wasn't 'nazi enough' and that Walther von Brauchitsch (Commander-in-Chief of the Wehrmacht) should have stood up to Goring..

"...The result of this agitation became evident when Göring, ostensibly
as the 'senior officer of the Wehrmacht', addressed a group of high-ranking military leaders in
spring 1939. In the course of his speech he quite brazenly upbraided the army, as distinct from
the other two services, for maintaining an outlook that was steeped in tradition and did not fit
in with the National-Socialist system. It was a speech which Colonel-General v. Brauchitsch,
who was among those present, should on no account have tolerated..."

(p.43, http://server2.docfoc.com/uploads/Z2...ec43c4727d.pdf)


That underlines that except for the SS it wasn't really all that easy or black and white.

The average American tends to call it all 'nazi' but that is just as incorrect as calling 'Operation Sledgehammer' a 'Democratic Party' or GOP (if Roosevelt would've been republican) operation.

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by ValoWay

Von Manstein wrote after the war that Hermann Göring shortly before the attack on Poland was holding a speech where he complained that compared to the 'Luftwaffe' or 'Kriegsmarine' the 'Wehrmacht' apparently wasn't 'nazi enough' and that Walther von Brauchitsch (Commander-in-Chief of the Wehrmacht) should have stood up to Goring..

That underlines that except for the SS it wasn't really all that easy or black or white.

The average American tends to call it all 'nazi' but that is just as incorrect as calling 'Operation Sledgehammer' a 'Democratic Party' or GOP (if Roosevelt was republican) operation.

Not even the SS was all black and white (pun very much intended). With the Turkish SS units and members including "sub-human" slavs, it is safe to say Berlin abandoned any requirement of lineage, after it turned out they would need a lot more replenishment to cover the losses. One can speculate who else would be accepted into the SS by 1944. That being said, many of the attrocities committed by SS personell were attributed to regular army personell. In war, it is no surprise if that then carries over to all branches of the German military. Then it sticks in people's minds. Not that any military branch anywhere, including the German army, are innocent but the SS were indeed a "special" branch filled with "special" people with "special" needs and desires. So bad was it at times that their own officers would file an official complaint against their soldiers demanding them be arrested and sent to a prison camp. Berlin however, generally disagreed and thought "the boys" were doing spectacularly.