Question about the Deck gun in RFB/U-boat missions

Packlife · 10-21-14, 10:40 PM

So here's my question, I'm playing the U-boat missions in SH4 with the RFB mod, is the deck gun suppose to be use less? It seem's no matter how many shells I sink into a ship I cant get a kill with it, it only has HE ammo for it but on two different occasions both ships were small coastal freighters. The one I know for a fact we fired off about 50 shells hitting it with about 20-30 an it would cause some explosions and fires to break out, but no sinking an never slowed them down a bit. I used up every shell on the deck gun between two different ships of the same type but no joy either time.

TorpX · 10-21-14, 11:45 PM

You might want to post your complete mod list when asking questions of this sort.

RFB does ratchet down the super deck gun shells, though. Still, shells in this game are greatly overpowered.

Packlife · 10-22-14, 11:00 AM

My mod list is pretty short its

RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
Nav Map Make-overv2.1

Yea I'd agree the shell's are normally over powered but, in my case they're like shooting a bb gun at an elephant you get a reaction but its a waste of time. a 1,120t coastal freighter should not be able to take like 20 HE shells an keep on at 7-9 knots an not sink

THEBERBSTER · 10-22-14, 11:56 AM

The Deck Gun in the more realistic mods like RFB and TMO are not meant to be used as primary weapons.

In other words the deck gun is used after a ship has been torpedoed by firing the gun at the water line to speed its sinking as this saves having to use further torpedoes.

You will notice that the deck gun preset icon is high lighting the water line.

Packlife · 10-22-14, 12:28 PM

Yea but to limit it to only being useful to make a ship sink faster isn't all that realistic. I've read quite a bit that deck guns were used to sink ships, the Germans used them quite a bit in WW1 since they were more reliable than torpedoes which that trend ran into WW2 for all sides. I'd rather be able to surface an take out a coastal freighter with my deck gun, to me a 1,120t freighter is not worth a torpedo to me.

THEBERBSTER · 10-22-14, 02:10 PM

You need to read the RFB manual and look at page 16 with regards to SDM and then turn your attention to pages 23 and 24 which explains in detail how RFB treats the deck gun.

TorpX · 10-22-14, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packlife

a 1,120t coastal freighter should not be able to take like 20 HE shells an keep on at 7-9 knots an not sink

I have to disagree.

HE shells are not as powerful as many think. The 4 inch ammunition for the typical US sub deck gun has a shell that is about 33 lbs., but the bursting charge is only about 1 to 1.5 lbs. A torpedo has a charge of over 400 lbs.

There are many examples of submarines requiring many shells to sink even small ships, or not being able to sink them at all. For example, it was the Tambor, iirc, that happened to see a small 'ship' that was taking supplies to the stranded garrison on Wake Is. The vessel was something less than 500 t, and clearly not a good torpedo target. They surfaced and engaged with the 5 inch gun. They exhausted their ammunition, and ended up taking out the defenders with small caliber fire, before boarding the craft, capturing the First Officer, and finally setting the craft on fire. Nor was this extraordinary. Shells aren't nearly as effective as torpedoes, and this is why the torpedo malfunctions were so disabling( and frustrating). There was really little alternative to torpedo attack, unless the targets were very small. BTW, when I use the word small here, I mean something less than 500 tons. That was the criteria used by JANAC, and they made no attempt to track or verify sinking of anything less.

Packlife · 10-23-14, 04:15 PM

I see your point but I'm running the U-boat missions an my deck gun is the 10.5cm, an even knocking holes into the hull around the water line an into the prop area had no effect

Sniper297 · 10-23-14, 06:45 PM

I'd disable the RFB mod and try it again, see what that does. Even a 3 inch punches a hole the size of a small card table in the side of a merchie, a dozen holes near the waterline SHOULD sink it. Stock game they geared it more toward "hit points" than actual sinking mechanics, but all the mods I've tried make them harder to sink instead of easier.

Unless you have the STEAM or console version, if all else fails edit the \Data\Library\shells.zon file to increase the damage numbers for the 105.

What I have for those (and I do my own mod soup so I have no idea what's different from stock):

97 (105 AP)

MinEF=35
MaxEF=60
AP=88
MinRadius=1.0
MaxRadius=4.0

99 (105 HE)

MinEF=21
MaxEF=36
AP=33
MinRadius=1.0
MaxRadius=4.0

I suspect those are stock numbers since I don't have 1.5 or any U-boats, and none of the US subs have a 105.

10-21-14, 10:40 PM	#1
Packlife Gunner Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 91 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Question about the Deck gun in RFB/U-boat missions So here's my question, I'm playing the U-boat missions in SH4 with the RFB mod, is the deck gun suppose to be use less? It seem's no matter how many shells I sink into a ship I cant get a kill with it, it only has HE ammo for it but on two different occasions both ships were small coastal freighters. The one I know for a fact we fired off about 50 shells hitting it with about 20-30 an it would cause some explosions and fires to break out, but no sinking an never slowed them down a bit. I used up every shell on the deck gun between two different ships of the same type but no joy either time.

10-21-14, 11:45 PM	#2
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	You might want to post your complete mod list when asking questions of this sort. RFB does ratchet down the super deck gun shells, though. Still, shells in this game are greatly overpowered.

10-22-14, 11:56 AM	#4
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	The Deck Gun in the more realistic mods like RFB and TMO are not meant to be used as primary weapons. In other words the deck gun is used after a ship has been torpedoed by firing the gun at the water line to speed its sinking as this saves having to use further torpedoes. You will notice that the deck gun preset icon is high lighting the water line. __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

10-22-14, 02:10 PM	#6
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Dibden Purlieu - Southampton Posts: 9,605 Downloads: 1123 Uploads: 0	You need to read the RFB manual and look at page 16 with regards to SDM and then turn your attention to pages 23 and 24 which explains in detail how RFB treats the deck gun. __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

10-22-14, 11:00 AM	#3
Packlife Gunner Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 91 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	My mod list is pretty short its RFB_2.0 RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010 Nav Map Make-overv2.1 Yea I'd agree the shell's are normally over powered but, in my case they're like shooting a bb gun at an elephant you get a reaction but its a waste of time. a 1,120t coastal freighter should not be able to take like 20 HE shells an keep on at 7-9 knots an not sink

10-22-14, 12:28 PM	#5
Packlife Gunner Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 91 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	Yea but to limit it to only being useful to make a ship sink faster isn't all that realistic. I've read quite a bit that deck guns were used to sink ships, the Germans used them quite a bit in WW1 since they were more reliable than torpedoes which that trend ran into WW2 for all sides. I'd rather be able to surface an take out a coastal freighter with my deck gun, to me a 1,120t freighter is not worth a torpedo to me.

10-23-14, 04:15 PM	#8
Packlife Gunner Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 91 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	I see your point but I'm running the U-boat missions an my deck gun is the 10.5cm, an even knocking holes into the hull around the water line an into the prop area had no effect

10-23-14, 06:45 PM	#9
Sniper297 The Old Man Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Philadelphia Shipyard Brig Posts: 1,386 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 19	I'd disable the RFB mod and try it again, see what that does. Even a 3 inch punches a hole the size of a small card table in the side of a merchie, a dozen holes near the waterline SHOULD sink it. Stock game they geared it more toward "hit points" than actual sinking mechanics, but all the mods I've tried make them harder to sink instead of easier. Unless you have the STEAM or console version, if all else fails edit the \Data\Library\shells.zon file to increase the damage numbers for the 105. What I have for those (and I do my own mod soup so I have no idea what's different from stock): 97 (105 AP) MinEF=35 MaxEF=60 AP=88 MinRadius=1.0 MaxRadius=4.0 99 (105 HE) MinEF=21 MaxEF=36 AP=33 MinRadius=1.0 MaxRadius=4.0 I suspect those are stock numbers since I don't have 1.5 or any U-boats, and none of the US subs have a 105.