LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by GrayOwl

650 mm of a tubes on Russian boats still on a place - and them nobody is going to remove.

Thus I didn't state 650 mm TUBES were removed from Russian ships and subs but all wepon models of that caliber were probably withdrawn from service, buddy!

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Yeah, I didn't want to point out that I actually found a 2005 internet source that spoke indirectly about APR-3M's mounted on ASW rockets...

Also, I believe that there may have been one or two 65-76 accidently left aboard some russian subs, just in case... :p

Nobody insists that APR-3M couldn't be mounted on some Russian ASROC but noting is known about these torpedoes actually mounted on it! I also have informations that APR-3 was contemplated as a loadout of SS-N-27 ASW but MTP-1UE was chosen due to its lower weight.

Yes, Lufty! I also noticed you are a man of big faith. After all this is a framework of "reality" in your mod! :rotfl:

My bad news for you is simple: Unfortunately there is no qualitative weapon balance between US Navy and Russian Navy now simply because many post-Soviet weapon systems were apparently withdrawn from duty (65-76, Starfish, Stallion) and nothing new was introduced as a replacement (UGST for example). So at present Russian subs use probably only USET-80 torpedoes as their primary weapon partially backed by older designs (TEST-71, SET-65, 53-65K) until reliable. No new SUBROC in known to be delivered to Russian Navy. On the other hand Chinese and Indian Navies use some brand-new Russian naval weapons, like "Club" and "Onyx/Brahmos" missiles family, not seen by Russian sailors at all! That is a real huge mess in this area, buddy!

[LuftWolf]

No one here knows anything substantial about anything, except for the people that do, who can't say anything.

I certainly am no weapons expert, and I've never said that I am.

LWAMI is about what's possible to do with DW, not about making Jane's All the World's Naval Weapons with 3-d graphics. That kind of modding is 1) boring as hell 2) pointless if the sim is broken.

I've not spent SO much time fixing the hundreds of things wrong in the stock game to allow this kind of trolling nitpicking to bother me at all, since you OBVIOUSLY speaketh out your anus because you have some kind of hater complex. Period.

As long as people here at SubSim who are going to be around in a year continue to think that LWAMI is worth their time, I'm going to think it's worth my time. Hell, I don't even play DW more than 1% of my total gaming these days, why would I be here and modding DW if I didn't think that people enjoyed it, and I didn't enjoy being here.

Anyway, you can say whatever you want, but it's only the words of a hater.

Cheers,
David

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I've not spent SO much time fixing the hundreds of things wrong in the stock game to allow this kind of trolling nitpicking to bother me at all, since you OBVIOUSLY speaketh out your anus because you have some kind of hater complex. Period.

As long as people here at SubSim who are going to be around in a year continue to think that LWAMI is worth their time, I'm going to think it's worth my time. Hell, I don't even play DW more than 1% of my total gaming these days, why would I be here and modding DW if I didn't think that people enjoyed it, and I didn't enjoy being here.

Take it easy Lufty and try to test your LWAMI mod once again along my suggerstions of course. Victory will be with you!

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Take it easy Lufty and try to test your LWAMI mod once again along my suggerstions of course. Victory will be with you!

Well, as always, I appreciate the feedback. It's all part of the big rings and fancy-cars lifestyle of being a modder...

I'll call you when I get to Dubai...

Cheers,
David

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Well, as always, I appreciate the feedback. It's all part of the big rings and fancy-cars lifestyle of being a modder...

I'll call you when I get to Dubai...

Before leaving us for Dubai car racing you should take into account all big savings resultant from my proposals! If you remove from LWAMI mod entire fictional, outdated and scarped Russian weapons, this game will be a lot more real and much simpler! Think about "Akula" armed only with USET-80, 53-65K and SS-N-27! Isn't it pretty real and useful platform, buddy???

[LuftWolf]

I think you should run a poll on that in the main DW forum... that's how I solved many of my boarderline issues.

I'm curious to see what kind of response the community would generate to your ideas. :hmm:

Cheers,
David

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I think you should run a poll on that in the main DW forum... that's how I solved many of my boarderline issues.

I'm curious to see what kind of response the community would generate to your ideas. :hmm:

I don't need any poll because no poll can change sad reality in that issue. Simply Russia doesn't produce any new naval weapons for its Navy but on the contrary Russia removed from service old ones. Therefore now there isn't possible any based on reality game balance between Red and Blue sides nor in the stock DW neither with LWAMI mod. USET-80 isn't on a par with latest ADCAP anymore.
I thought very long how to easily and at least partially preserve DW reality without deleting older Russian weapons which causes destruction of game balance. My sole answer on it is simple: Sonanalysts or Lufty must remark that stock game and LWAMI mod respectively takes place sometime during 1990-2002 period when all needed for Red-Blue balance Russian weapons and platforms were in inventory. That is all!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

I think you should run a poll on that in the main DW forum... that's how I solved many of my boarderline issues.

I'm curious to see what kind of response the community would generate to your ideas. :hmm:

Cheers,
David

Hmmm, using the Seawolf myself, what about a Akula with only a cook on board?

[TLAM Strike]

Luft got an idea. Take all the civi models (well most plus that DPRK speed boat) throw a couple of machine guns and maybe an RPG in their weapons inventory and make a terrorist "country" for the database. Would make something more intresting to fight than wave after wave of sucide boats. Oh and make the "Pill Box" have something that can damage a fig, make a shore battery verson or something. I'm making a mission that envolves escorting a merchie along the Al Faw penensula (Iraq) and it would be nice to have some insurgents on land and in small boats that can actuarly hurt the player and his escortie.

[Gorshkov]

Lufty have pointed out earlier that to be able to use SS-N-16/APR-3 effectively this weapon must land very close to its target. I must correct this: APR-3 must land closely but not too close to target! Why? In the last mission I launched SS-N-16 at my favourite Foxtrot-class test sub. The APR-3 torpedo dropped in the water and began to seach. Unfortunately after completing one circle my torpedo shut-down without acquiring any target. What's the matter? Having watched after action report I was shocked! My APR-3 couldn't find Foxtrot simply because...sub was all along INSIDE torpedo's searching circle!

Tough titty! :rotfl:

[LuftWolf]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

Lufty have pointed out earlier that to be able to use SS-N-16/APR-3 effectively this weapon must land very close to its target. I must correct this: APR-3 must land closely but not too close to target! Why? In the last mission I launched SS-N-16 at my favourite Foxtrot-class test sub. The APR-3 torpedo dropped in the water and began to seach. Unfortunately after completing one circle my torpedo shut-down without acquiring any target. What's the matter? Having watched after action report I was shocked! My APR-3 couldn't find Foxtrot simply because...sub was all along INSIDE torpedo's searching circle!

Tough titty! :rotfl:

Well, yeah, you just described the function of the APR-3.

In real life, the torpedo actually uses its momentum from airdrop to do its initial search pattern, not firing its rocket motor until it finds a target... of course, momentum in DW is not really well simulated for things like torpedoes, so I need to provide a sufficient thrust for the weapon to actually search.

You really need to read the readme. Of course, you'll probably say that it's too long and not detailed enough...

Cheers,
David

[Gorshkov]

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Well, yeah, you just described the function of the APR-3.

In real life, the torpedo actually uses its momentum from airdrop to do its initial search pattern, not firing its rocket motor until it finds a target... of course, momentum in DW is not really well simulated for things like torpedoes, so I need to provide a sufficient thrust for the weapon to actually search.

You really need to read the readme. Of course, you'll probably say that it's too long and not detailed enough...

No, you didn't understand my point! I know perfectly well how APR-3 works in your mod. I only described so unique situation when APR-3 can't acquire target because target is all along inside torpedo's searching ring and APR-3 seeker tries to find targets only outside this ring!

[GrayOwl]

Cone APR-3 in Luft Mod Too Small, real data this:

Weight: kg 525
Diameter: mm 350
Overall length: mm appr. 3,700
Running depth: 0-800 m.
Submerged running speed, Km/h (m/sec):
* in mode I of propulsion unit operation - up to 65 (18)
* in mode II of propulsion unit operation - about 100

Guidance system sonar
Response radius, m:
* in search mode 1,800-2,000
* in attack mode 800-1,200

Aperture of radiation pattern: deg. 90 (2x45)
Resolution (signal/noise) 0.2-0.3
Bearing accuracy, deg. 1.5-2.0
Warhead explosive charge (in TNT equivalent), kg 74
Target kill probability with a MRS error at target designation 300-500 m up to 0.9
Time of combat mission execution, min 1-2

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Gorshkov

...because target is all along inside torpedo's searching ring and APR-3 seeker tries to find targets only outside this ring!

I'm sure the seeker isn't slewed to the left, which is what would have to be the case if a torpedo in a right turn was only searching "outside the ring." It searches a cone straight ahead, just like every other torpedo. In a circle search pattern, the cone will include the area both inside and outside of the circle along the torpedo's course, with the size of the area being searched determined by the width of the search cone at maximum acquisition range.