My only complaint about cold waters...

GoldenRivet · 11-02-17, 07:21 PM

Is the ease with which the player sub is detected... it is simply phenomenal.

There i am, rigged for ultra quiet. creeping along at 2 kts 1200 foot deep. I am maintaining a low aspect ratio on Sierra 1 by pointing my snout directly at her.

Sierra one is a Victor class sub, some 15,000 - 17,000 yards away

one ping from that Victor and i have two of those SS-N-16s heading my way in two seconds flat.

obviously they land in the water directly above me and circle around and around in their descent.

I fire off a MOSS and change direction and depth, the SS-N-16s home in on the MOSS and miss it and then home immediately on me. Im forced into more aggressive evasive action at this point.

now I'm as noisy as Neal Stevens' Aces of the Deep glory days stories after his 8th round at the Depth Charge Saloon in Cougar Trap, Texas.

Before you know it, i now have no less than 10 or 12 torpedoes in a swirling cluster fox melee on every bearing.

I'm feeling like Patches O'Houlihan doing my best to dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge while popping decoys and forming knuckles. usually i can manage to evade these torpedoes until they reach their run limit and detonate. but other times, the sea is so full of torpedoes that there will be several of them tailing me at any given minute.

any hope i have of maintaining long range contact with a sub and doing several hours of "end around" cat and mouse games to get into their baffles is absolutely zero if i am to be discovered at such ridiculous ranges with such astounding accuracy off one ping.

suggestions? anyone else feel my pain? do i need a snickers bar? Beuller?

GoldenRivet · 11-02-17, 07:31 PM

And dont even get me started on that MK-37

if thats the best fish we could have put in the water at the height of the cold war the Russians undoubtedly had complete control of the seven seas through it all.

a tube launched scuba diver with a hand grenade would have proven more lethal

CaptainCruise · 11-02-17, 11:07 PM

Were there any other enemy assets in the mission? Any surface ships? What about any helo's or aircraft dropping sonobouys in your area? Are you positive the torp was a SS-N-16 from the Victor and not a aerial dropped weapon from a helo or May/Bear ASW aircraft?

If you were heading right at him at slow speed and deep, and at 15,000+ yds, I don't understand how he heard you unless you did something to get his attention.

Are you using the realism mod? Any mods? What version of the game?

I know the Mk37 very well. I ended up modding the weapons.txt file to give the Mk37 a chance to get a hit. I messed with the Mk16 also so it's not "as dumb as a stump" anymore. Its no wonder weapon, just.....ok.

"CC"

GoldenRivet · 11-02-17, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

Were there any other enemy assets in the mission? Any surface ships? What about any helo's or aircraft dropping sonobouys in your area? Are you positive the torp was a SS-N-16 from the Victor and not a aerial dropped weapon from a helo or May/Bear ASW aircraft?

one on one duel single mission - me vs him - no planes, no choppers etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

If you were heading right at him at slow speed and deep, and at 15,000+ yds, I don't understand how he heard you unless you did something to get his attention.

me either. but i am often finding myself in this predicament with the enemy sub or surface ships going straight to pinging like all get out and inevitably, im found. range to target, aspect ratio etc seem to make no difference.

in this case, the mission started. parameters were close to 20Kyds immediately on mission start i ordered ultra quiet, ordered 2 knots and started listening. after a few minutes made contact and identified target. decided i would be cute and close the range and get a good shot at him out of the baffles. went deep. then ping. event camera showed him firing the SS-N-16 so i know it was him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCruise

Are you using the realism mod? Any mods? What version of the game?

bare naked, 100% vanilla, bone stock updated to the latest version via steam

EDIT: i guess the minute you make sonar contact and ID them and have a solution over any decent percentage the trick is to just go guns blazing. if active (or even passive) sonar is as dead on accurate in real life as it is in cold waters, i would go so far as to say the submarine as a weapon - is entirely obsolete.

CaptainCruise · 11-02-17, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

one on one duel single mission - me vs him - no planes, no choppers etc

**OK, I've played this one a few times.

me either. but i am often finding myself in this predicament with the enemy sub or surface ships going straight to pinging like all get out and inevitably, im found. range to target, aspect ratio etc seem to make no difference.

**The enemy subs do seem to be more aggressive with active sonar in this game. Maybe they're modeled that way considering Russian sonar was not as good as ours, so they try to even the odds a bit by going active more often. Just a guess. 15,000+yds seems like a bit of a stretch for active range tho.

in this case, the mission started. parameters were close to 20Kyds immediately on mission start i ordered ultra quiet, ordered 2 knots and started listening. after a few minutes made contact and identified target. decided i would be cute and close the range and get a good shot at him out of the baffles. went deep. then ping. event camera showed him firing the SS-N-16 so i know it was him.

**Were you cavitating when the mission started? Those few seconds of cavitation are enough to give him a quick sonar contact at the start, and even tho you probably vanished from his sonar when you went quiet, he had a bearing on you. Accurate range, dunno how he did that so fast unless he got a workable range from a active sonar ping. Maybe from there he just got lucky.

bare naked, 100% vanilla, bone stock updated to the latest version via steam

**Then I don't think you wanna try the realism mod.

It gets a lot tougher than stock.

EDIT: i guess the minute you make sonar contact and ID them and have a solution over any decent percentage the trick is to just go guns blazing. if active (or even passive) sonar is as dead on accurate in real life as it is in cold waters, i would go so far as to say the submarine as a weapon - is entirely obsolete.

**I had a mission that worked out for me almost the same as what you had here. Whiskey sub close in and I got nothing on sonar no matter what I do. I finally go active and after a few pings I still got nothing, but he got all he needed cause then I get a trop launch video from him. Now I got a close in torp and my sonar never hears it. I don't find it until its almost in my pocket. The only thing you can do in this situation is fire a torp down his bearing, set it for his depth and to go active, snake pattern, and let it go. Steer it if you have the time, if not cut the wires and run. I try to keep the wires as long as I can, even if I let the torp get a bit too clos to be. I just start evading and cross my fingers.

The sub is far from obsolete, believe it. You'll get better at all this in time. Just keep playing, keep searching the forums for info on the game, talk to people who have played a lot. Also, check out YouTube. There are several vids about Cold Waters that cover a lot of info. Tutorials, torp evasion, tracking targets, sonar, etc. Everything you need to know. Just have faith.

"CC"

**I messed up the quote box in the beginning of this post, sorry. Looks confusing.

GoldenRivet · 11-03-17, 12:17 AM

The game is female thats for sure

hot one minute, cold the next

Take the Bastion Gambit mission for example:

i played it a few times today. in one case, i was pinged from afar by a surface ship which made a b-line for me, as did his buddy. same scenario, 50 ft from the floor, 2 knots, low aspect ratio and discovered as if by magic. i fired at them both, but shortly after that i had a sub fire a spread of 4 at me, i had a plane drop an air dropped torpedo on me. it very soon felt like the whole red fleet was onto me. they made short work of me.

in the next case, they couldnt find their butts with both hands, i stalked up right nearly under the escorts into the boomer's baffles, gave him two up the rear end. spent the other two tubes on the surface escorts. evaded a single shot from a foxtrot sub and let him have it once i reloaded. it went on and on, six enemy ships sent to the bottom and only a single shot fired by the lot of them.

in the iron coffins mission(?), i spent quite a while... an hour perhaps IRL getting into the baffles of one of the subs, closed to within maybe 500 - 600 yds and let him have it, i turned straight for his companion the second the shots left the tubes. and i went deep as i could. the second sub could never find me and was pinging over and over again. he went right over top of me about 800 foot above. i mad a big ascending u-turn and gave him one right up the prop hub.

in a replay of that same mission, tried it again, this time the first sub found me within 10 seconds of the game start using active sonar straight away. fired four at me. in my efforts to evade i was obviously detected by the other sub and before i knew it i was jinking left right up and down to escape 8 torpedoes all over the place. i was still victorious however because one of the subs had a circle runner and was taken out by his own torpedo. the second sub i played chicken with leading all 8 torpedoes back to him as he was closest. most of the torpedoes exploded on the way, but a couple of them left me and homed in on him. so i won that one without firing a shot.

Overkill · 11-06-17, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenRivet

...a tube launched scuba diver with a hand grenade would have proven more lethal

No doubt!

11-02-17, 07:21 PM	#1
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,712 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	My only complaint about cold waters... Is the ease with which the player sub is detected... it is simply phenomenal. There i am, rigged for ultra quiet. creeping along at 2 kts 1200 foot deep. I am maintaining a low aspect ratio on Sierra 1 by pointing my snout directly at her. Sierra one is a Victor class sub, some 15,000 - 17,000 yards away one ping from that Victor and i have two of those SS-N-16s heading my way in two seconds flat. obviously they land in the water directly above me and circle around and around in their descent. I fire off a MOSS and change direction and depth, the SS-N-16s home in on the MOSS and miss it and then home immediately on me. Im forced into more aggressive evasive action at this point. now I'm as noisy as Neal Stevens' Aces of the Deep glory days stories after his 8th round at the Depth Charge Saloon in Cougar Trap, Texas. Before you know it, i now have no less than 10 or 12 torpedoes in a swirling cluster fox melee on every bearing. I'm feeling like Patches O'Houlihan doing my best to dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge while popping decoys and forming knuckles. usually i can manage to evade these torpedoes until they reach their run limit and detonate. but other times, the sea is so full of torpedoes that there will be several of them tailing me at any given minute. any hope i have of maintaining long range contact with a sub and doing several hours of "end around" cat and mouse games to get into their baffles is absolutely zero if i am to be discovered at such ridiculous ranges with such astounding accuracy off one ping. suggestions? anyone else feel my pain? do i need a snickers bar? Beuller? __________________

11-02-17, 07:31 PM	#2
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,712 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	And dont even get me started on that MK-37 if thats the best fish we could have put in the water at the height of the cold war the Russians undoubtedly had complete control of the seven seas through it all. a tube launched scuba diver with a hand grenade would have proven more lethal __________________

11-03-17, 12:17 AM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,712 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	The game is female thats for sure hot one minute, cold the next Take the Bastion Gambit mission for example: i played it a few times today. in one case, i was pinged from afar by a surface ship which made a b-line for me, as did his buddy. same scenario, 50 ft from the floor, 2 knots, low aspect ratio and discovered as if by magic. i fired at them both, but shortly after that i had a sub fire a spread of 4 at me, i had a plane drop an air dropped torpedo on me. it very soon felt like the whole red fleet was onto me. they made short work of me. in the next case, they couldnt find their butts with both hands, i stalked up right nearly under the escorts into the boomer's baffles, gave him two up the rear end. spent the other two tubes on the surface escorts. evaded a single shot from a foxtrot sub and let him have it once i reloaded. it went on and on, six enemy ships sent to the bottom and only a single shot fired by the lot of them. in the iron coffins mission(?), i spent quite a while... an hour perhaps IRL getting into the baffles of one of the subs, closed to within maybe 500 - 600 yds and let him have it, i turned straight for his companion the second the shots left the tubes. and i went deep as i could. the second sub could never find me and was pinging over and over again. he went right over top of me about 800 foot above. i mad a big ascending u-turn and gave him one right up the prop hub. in a replay of that same mission, tried it again, this time the first sub found me within 10 seconds of the game start using active sonar straight away. fired four at me. in my efforts to evade i was obviously detected by the other sub and before i knew it i was jinking left right up and down to escape 8 torpedoes all over the place. i was still victorious however because one of the subs had a circle runner and was taken out by his own torpedo. the second sub i played chicken with leading all 8 torpedoes back to him as he was closest. most of the torpedoes exploded on the way, but a couple of them left me and homed in on him. so i won that one without firing a shot. __________________

11-02-17, 11:07 PM	#3
CaptainCruise Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Long Island, New York...home of the 5 gallon economy bucket of "Cruiser's Crunchy Egg Salad"!!! Posts: 141 Downloads: 344 Uploads: 0	Were there any other enemy assets in the mission? Any surface ships? What about any helo's or aircraft dropping sonobouys in your area? Are you positive the torp was a SS-N-16 from the Victor and not a aerial dropped weapon from a helo or May/Bear ASW aircraft? If you were heading right at him at slow speed and deep, and at 15,000+ yds, I don't understand how he heard you unless you did something to get his attention. Are you using the realism mod? Any mods? What version of the game? I know the Mk37 very well. I ended up modding the weapons.txt file to give the Mk37 a chance to get a hit. I messed with the Mk16 also so it's not "as dumb as a stump" anymore. Its no wonder weapon, just.....ok. "CC"