US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Rockstar]

Yes sooo very interesting isnt it, our bloviating congress calling on a witness who was just recently convicted of having lied to the SAME congress. Wow

CNN analyst Jeffrey Toobin did not mince words in his critique of the hearing, saying he was struck by "the breathtaking incompetence of the questioning" that did not lead to any valuable information from Cohen.


"I am struck by the breathtaking incompetence of the questioning," @JeffreyToobin says about Michael Cohen's public testimony, adding that the line of questioning was "endless bloviating and not actually getting information out of the witness"

Even the New York Times weighs in

In a running online commentary, reporters and editors from The New York Times noted that several of the Republicans' tactics have not panned out, including attempts to "show that Cohen is doing this for financial gain" (several questions revolved around whether the former lawyer is pursuing a book or movie deal). The Times' White House correspondent also noted some hypocrisy surrounding that topic, as Trump "often promotes such books when they flatter him."

At the same time, Times reporter Nicholas Fandos asserted that the Republicans "actually have a clearer sense" of what they are hoping to achieve — "muddy the waters around Cohen" — than the Democrats, who "continue to overreach a bit" and "seem to be having a much harder time choosing which targets are worth their time."

From the beginning I said it was a BOONDOGGLE AND NATIONAL EMBARRASSMENT. Brought to you by and thanks to our hard earned money they tax and just piss away with this political tripe. And some think this is supposed to be interesting and neccessary, what a joke.

[Skybird]

A duck swims home, wet and pissed. The pond in the wonderful place names Washington D.C. already is waiting. With many sharks in it.

[u crank]

The chance that Trump was going to get a deal in Hanoi that would result in a clear and irreversible commitment to the ‘denuclearisation’ of North Korea was pretty much zero. Trump did the right thing in insisting on more than Kim was offering. There is a long way to go yet. My suspicion is that way at the bottom of the US briefcase is a realization that Kim won't and doesn't have to give up all of his nukes. His fear is that would lead to a Gaddafi type take down. The question is what to get for that. The only real solution is a type of political deal that greatly reduces tensions with a kind of mutual nuclear deterrence. That has worked for a long time with other countries. Bringing NK back out of the stone age economically and socially would be the goal I would think.

Carrot and stick.

[Skybird]

I'm laughing because your beloved great dealmaker stepped into the sam trap that several Us presidents before him stepped into who got ridiculed and attacked for it by him.


Its also said that the summit was incredibly dilettantically prepared by the American preparation team. While the Northkorerans apparenmtly got coldly surprised by the ammount of American intel about their alternative nuclear facility thy hoped to let slip by under the Amercans' radar.


However, the Donald ran a strategy of maximum demands - and crashed down early, totally. No dealmaking, thus no peace Nobel. Poor duck.



And me? I say again what I said last year after Singapore already: Northkorea will NEVER give up their nuclear weapons. NEVER. Kim too has seen what happened in Libya. Murderous unscrupulousness (before he left the country, he should have let executed 50 cadres in the party and military to secure his safe return) should not be mistaken with stupidity.

[Armistead]

Not sure what we should do about N. Korea, but the blockade of the South worked pretty good!

[em2nought]

"Trump fails to disarm North Korea's nuclear program." Finally some news that democrats will celebrate!

[eddie]

Originally Posted by em2nought

"Trump fails to disarm North Korea's nuclear program." Finally some news that democrats will celebrate!

Doubt they will, but sure are looking forward to the SDNY investigation results,lol Especially if they can hang that spineless big mouthed Donald Junya!

[vienna]

A few points...

Cohen is looking for a reduction of sentence: Nonsense. Once a person is convicted, especially for a crimes to which they plead guilty, the only way to get a reduction of sentence either by appeal of their conviction or commutation (reduction) of their sentence by an overseeing executive. Setting aside no appeals court would entertain an appeal by someone who has admitted to their crime, an appeal can only be made over technical, procedural issues, such as prosecutorial misconduct or malfeasance. Since Cohen didn't oppose his conviction and there is no claim or misconduct, he has no recourse...

As far as a commutation is concerned, the only executive who can issue a commutation for a Federal crime is the POTUS. I think it s a pretty safe bet to say Cohen is not going to ever see that happen. The argument Cohen would lie now to get a reduced sentence is utter nonsense...


Cohen is looking for a pardon: Again, nonsense. Unless you think Trump is a very, very forgiving guy who doesn't hold grudges, the idea of a pardon, which only the POTUS can issue, is ridiculous. There was a prior post in this thread where the idea was put forth Cohen could be lying in hopes of gaining a pardon from a future DEM President; it would appear there is a question if Trump will even be around for a second term inherent in that argument. Cohen's current prison sentence is three (3) years; he would be out of prison long before a DEM President could take office if Trump had a second term, rendering this argument moot. If a DEM does win in 2020, the net reduction via pardon would be so small as to be negligible...

Lying isn't worth the risk for Cohen. Again, nonsense and I dare say, balderdash...

Oh, and thanks for admitting Trump probably won't be around for a second term...


Cohen is lying again during the current hearings: Why? If he has no chance of commutation or pardon, what is his motivation? The potential downside far out weighs any truly logical, or even plausible, rationale. Cohen already has three year sentence, and is still under an agreement with the Special Counsel (SC) that imposes further prosecution and/or penalties if violated. Does anyone really think this guy is going to risk a heaping helping of further prosecution or prison time for logically no reason at all? What could he possibly gain by lying that would be worth the risk? Again, nonsense...

Then there is the issue of the documentation accompanying Cohen's testimonies over the last three days. We don't know what he is presenting in terms of testimony and/or evidence during the closed door hearings with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, but Cohen did provide documentation to the House Oversight Committees, much of which appears to have come from Trump Organization record and/or Trump's personal dealings via Cohen; its not like he's merely referring to vague inferences of possible documents, he's actually turning over real paper; its hard to refute items such as actual bank records, checks, etc. as not being actual, solid evidence. And, again, what would Cohen gain by submitting false or misleading evidence. Does anyone really think, given the scrutiny a case such as this gets both by law enforcement, the media, and the public, that Cohen would reasonably believe eh could get away with it? Cohen may have been a fool to get involved with a conman and liar like Trump in the first place, but he couldn't be that much of a fool...


Finally, it should be noted tee GOP members of the committee never once actually materially challenge, on a specific basis, any of the evidence regarding Trump and his alleged wrongdoings. All the harpies did was to raise a chorus of "Liar!!" and piously and righteously decry how would anyone dare to lie...

...yet these are the self-same who have no problem at all espousing and defending someone like Trump who has lied, openly and blatantly during his entire life and, most notably and criminally, during his tenure as POTUS.. I guess for those paragons of virtue and defenders of morality, theirs doesn't stink...





(Yes... it does... and to high heaven...)...











<O>

[August]

Apparently the Dems latest great white hope to bring down the Trumpster has gotten caught lying to Congress once again.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/polit...use/index.html


Oh well keep trying Dems. Maybe by 2024 you'll come up with something that actually damages Trump.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by August

Apparently the Dems latest great white hope to bring down the Trumpster has gotten caught lying to Congress once again.


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/28/polit...use/index.html


Oh well keep trying Dems. Maybe by 2024 you'll come up with something that actually damages Trump.

Yeah, right, an article with a lot of "ifs" and not one solid, provable fact: 'if they have the emails', etc. None of this, in any way, explains away, or negates, any of the documentation presented at the hearing yesterday, nor does it let Trump off the hook of responsibility fr his actions. And this is without even knowing what Cohen has presented to the Senate and House Intelligence Committees Tuesday and today, respectively...

Once again, a big "Meh..."...

OH, well, keep trying Trumpettes; maybe the Big Yellow Screw-Up you follow will find something to pull out of his copious behind...


...and if he does, there is little doubt it will be a lie; you know "lies", thsoe things you get so self-righteous and morally indignant about all the time... selectively...










<O>

[Armistead]

I think we all know Trump paid off the ho porn girl. Even the worse case here he cut a few checks after being pres, it's really a petty charge. Oh, the Dems gonna impeach on anything, but the senate won't find him guilty and it will probably work to his favor in the next election considering all the stupid stuff Dems do. Basically, it's Bill Clinton all over again, start with one thing, way down the line we spent millions to find out a president got his winky wet and tried to cover it. Winkygate!

[Armistead]

You forgot what Cohen is really concerned about in this....what leading male will be playing him in his upcoming movie....To think he wouldn't lie, mislead, make accusations, cause drama, etc...considering his history would be a little naive. He's backed by the Dems and the Clinton Crime Syndicate. He's not that worried.

Originally Posted by vienna

A few points...

Cohen is looking for a reduction of sentence: Nonsense. Once a person is convicted, especially for a crimes to which they plead guilty, the only way to get a reduction of sentence either by appeal of their conviction or commutation (reduction) of their sentence by an overseeing executive. Setting aside no appeals court would entertain an appeal by someone who has admitted to their crime, an appeal can only be made over technical, procedural issues, such as prosecutorial misconduct or malfeasance. Since Cohen didn't oppose his conviction and there is no claim or misconduct, he has no recourse...

As far as a commutation is concerned, the only executive who can issue a commutation for a Federal crime is the POTUS. I think it s a pretty safe bet to say Cohen is not going to ever see that happen. The argument Cohen would lie now to get a reduced sentence is utter nonsense...


Cohen is looking for a pardon: Again, nonsense. Unless you think Trump is a very, very forgiving guy who doesn't hold grudges, the idea of a pardon, which only the POTUS can issue, is ridiculous. There was a prior post in this thread where the idea was put forth Cohen could be lying in hopes of gaining a pardon from a future DEM President; it would appear there is a question if Trump will even be around for a second term inherent in that argument. Cohen's current prison sentence is three (3) years; he would be out of prison long before a DEM President could take office if Trump had a second term, rendering this argument moot. If a DEM does win in 2020, the net reduction via pardon would be so small as to be negligible...

Lying isn't worth the risk for Cohen. Again, nonsense and I dare say, balderdash...

Oh, and thanks for admitting Trump probably won't be around for a second term...


Cohen is lying again during the current hearings: Why? If he has no chance of commutation or pardon, what is his motivation? The potential downside far out weighs any truly logical, or even plausible, rationale. Cohen already has three year sentence, and is still under an agreement with the Special Counsel (SC) that imposes further prosecution and/or penalties if violated. Does anyone really think this guy is going to risk a heaping helping of further prosecution or prison time for logically no reason at all? What could he possibly gain by lying that would be worth the risk? Again, nonsense...

Then there is the issue of the documentation accompanying Cohen's testimonies over the last three days. We don't know what he is presenting in terms of testimony and/or evidence during the closed door hearings with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees, but Cohen did provide documentation to the House Oversight Committees, much of which appears to have come from Trump Organization record and/or Trump's personal dealings via Cohen; its not like he's merely referring to vague inferences of possible documents, he's actually turning over real paper; its hard to refute items such as actual bank records, checks, etc. as not being actual, solid evidence. And, again, what would Cohen gain by submitting false or misleading evidence. Does anyone really think, given the scrutiny a case such as this gets both by law enforcement, the media, and the public, that Cohen would reasonably believe eh could get away with it? Cohen may have been a fool to get involved with a conman and liar like Trump in the first place, but he couldn't be that much of a fool...


Finally, it should be noted tee GOP members of the committee never once actually materially challenge, on a specific basis, any of the evidence regarding Trump and his alleged wrongdoings. All the harpies did was to raise a chorus of "Liar!!" and piously and righteously decry how would anyone dare to lie...

...yet these are the self-same who have no problem at all espousing and defending someone like Trump who has lied, openly and blatantly during his entire life and, most notably and criminally, during his tenure as POTUS.. I guess for those paragons of virtue and defenders of morality, theirs doesn't stink...





(Yes... it does... and to high heaven...)...











<O>

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Armistead

You forgot what Cohen is really concerned about in this....what leading male will be playing him in his upcoming movie....To think he wouldn't lie, mislead, make accusations, cause drama, etc...considering his history would be a little naive. He's backed by the Dems and the Clinton Crime Syndicate. He's not that worried.

Got any actual, solid proof for those statements, or is this just a parroting of Hannity, et. al.? Particularly the DEM backing bit and the Clinton backing bit: any solid proof the DEMs are actively backing him, at all, other than hoping Cohen's testimony and evidence will get the job done for them? Any proof of payments, coaching, etc.? Would really be interested in seeing it, if it exists...

As far as Clinton is concerned, all Cohen did was look around for the best lawyer with experience handling political cases and he settled on one with a good track record; that he happened to be a counsel for Clinton does not necessarily mean Cohen is in the Clinton camp or in any other way associated with Clinton. So, any actual proof Cohen is in the sway of Clinton?...

It seems to me, Cohen finding a good attorney is something Trump should have done long ago; Trump's track record in hiring lawyers, advisers, etc., is really very poor and is highly indicative of extreme bad judgment. Just in the two years in office so far, Trump's managed to to go through a rogue's gallery of losers in his administration; so much for being a real stable genius...

BTW, both Trump and Roger Stone began their long friendship and partnership when they became protégés of their mutual mentor, Roy Cohn; Cohn, in fact was the personal attorney for Trump form 1973 to 1985, until Cohn was disbarred for breaches of ethics and criminal activity. Cohn was also representing several mob bosses, including John Gotti, at the same time he was representing Trump. Seems like Trump sure can pick'em when it comes to being a judge of character...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn


An interesting article about Trump/Stone/Cohn that explains a lot...

How Donald Trump and Roy Cohn’s Ruthless Symbiosis Changed America --

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...n-relationship









<O>

[Armistead]

Well, a handful of GOP congressmen sent a letter to Attorney General Bill Barr referring Cohen for investigation for perjury today

"We write to refer significant evidence that Michael D. Cohen committed perjury and knowingly made false statements during his testimony before an Oversight and Reform Committee"

When you look at the comparative facts of their claims, I bet he's in more trouble... for perjury.

The Clinton structure, and I agree, she ain't the head anymore, are just using him as a sacrificial goat. I notice today many said in closed hearings he stuck more to script, was more careful in wording, relied more on his lawyer and stayed away from all the liberal drama talking points...racist, sexist, criminal, con man, etc...

Originally Posted by vienna

Got any actual, solid proof for those statements, or is this just a parroting of Hannity, et. al.? Particularly the DEM backing bit and the Clinton backing bit: any solid proof the DEMs are actively backing him, at all, other than hoping Cohen's testimony and evidence will get the job done for them? Any proof of payments, coaching, etc.? Would really be interested in seeing it, if it exists...

As far as Clinton is concerned, all Cohen did was look around for the best lawyer with experience handling political cases and he settled on one with a good track record; that he happened to be a counsel for Clinton does not necessarily mean Cohen is in the Clinton camp or in any other way associated with Clinton. So, any actual proof Cohen is in the sway of Clinton?...

It seems to me, Cohen finding a good attorney is something Trump should have done long ago; Trump's track record in hiring lawyers, advisers, etc., is really very poor and is highly indicative of extreme bad judgment. Just in the two years in office so far, Trump's managed to to go through a rogue's gallery of losers in his administration; so much for being a real stable genius...

BTW, both Trump and Roger Stone began their long friendship and partnership when they became protégés of their mutual mentor, Roy Cohn; Cohn, in fact was the personal attorney for Trump form 1973 to 1985, until Cohn was disbarred for breaches of ethics and criminal activity. Cohn was also representing several mob bosses, including John Gotti, at the same time he was representing Trump. Seems like Trump sure can pick'em when it comes to being a judge of character...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Cohn


An interesting article about Trump/Stone/Cohn that explains a lot...

How Donald Trump and Roy Cohn’s Ruthless Symbiosis Changed America --

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017...n-relationship









<O>

[Rockstar]

Its fun watching a party implode. What do they have to offer? Entertainment of course.


https://www.lmtonline.com/news/artic...s-13653983.php