UK Politics Thread

[Catfish]

It seems that the british people are divided, to say at least. Of those who are for a brexit they do not exactly know what they really want or how to do it, apart from those who want a no-deal-brexit-cut. But the latter is not what the majority of the people want, let alone industry.
The people around Rees-Mogg try to make prime minister May stumble regardless what would be best for the country, or follows the general opinion. "The EU leading England by the nose" or whatever his or Johnson's or Farage's lies are exactly, it is always the anxious try to spread fear, insecurity, divide, bedevil others, and drive wedges between people and nations, for their own personal opinion (mostly not worth much) and political benefit. This is not the fault of the EU.


An analysis in the german TV recently allleged that this whole 'process' has a lot to do with what happened to England after WW2. Winning the war, England did not get much out of it (much less than the US, or Russia), and after possessing almost 25 percent of the world's land mass for decades being able to dictating politics, rules and international trade the 'Empire' crumbled, and was gone. Instead of prospering, industry was left with 90 percent less trade, old machines, and not having enough money to invest, and then additionally there was social unrest and strikes.

I do not know whether this really is/was the main cause, apart from a general different view between young and old, between modern and conservative, between pro EU and anti EU – while all three combinations overlap or differ somehow. There are no clean fronts, and it has nothing to do with 'left' or 'right'. Opinions exist all over the spectrum.

Whatever the reason, it is time to come to terms with old wounds and the feeling of loss and betrayal, so that agitators and liars can be stopped. A bit of enlightenment May is not the reason for all this, but she has become the scapegoat for this general feeling, when the real arsonists ran away in the hour of change.

Although May has done a lot for getting the old empire nations together and dealienate them from the long-felt arrogance, while also trying to improve trade and relations, all this will not heal and happen in a few months.


So, how do you think this will go on? May has been confirmed for now, but she will most likely lose the majority for her way of a brexit. While all wonder why this will happen because - apart from Ireland - it delivers all that has been asked for.
IMHO whatever the deal may be, there will be no Empire. And there will always be the question of Northern Ireland. If England breaks the treaties and gets out with no deal, it will most probably have consequences for the UK as a political construct




What exactly, are the reasons to vote against Mrs May's deal, apart from the future situation of Ireland?

What do you think happens if this deal will be voted down?


I know you do not want it but we like you. But you are really making it hard, for all

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Catfish

What exactly, are the reasons to vote against Mrs May's deal, apart from the future situation of Ireland?

What do you think happens if this deal will be voted down?


I know you do not want it but we like you. But you are really making it hard, for all

I'll do my best to answer the above whilst readily admitting I'm pro Brexit.....

Patience with May eventually came to an end when Parliament (who are sovereign on such matters) grew tired of her weakness and inability to negotiate an acceptable deal, furthermore giving the nation a sense of a bullying position by the EU.

The deal which would have been put before Parliament meant the UK would lose any negotiating and voting rights at the EU policy making entities, would have to abide by any decisions made by said countries and pay approx. £40 billion for the priviledge....REALLY!!

So, nothing in effect would change and the cost was far too high anyway.

May was totally intransigent of the views of her cabinet, Brexit secretaries, MP's and a majority of the nation.

The price she has paid was to meet her MP's in private asking for their vote and in return agreeing not to lead her party at the next general election and be rightly categorised as a 'dead duck' (Merkel and Macron anybody?).

All is not yet lost however because today she once again goes to Europe cap in hand to humiliate herself further and attempt to negotiate a settlement the UK can agree to and in so doing has a clear mandate and mesage to our friends and Allies.....The UK requires a legally binding agreement on the backstop or we walk and go over to WTO tarifs.

Should that happen and I sincerely hope that is not the case, there should be a clear understanding that any tarifs imposed from the EU will be matched and reciprocated by the UK (current estimate make that a profit of £13 billion in favour of the UK).

I can't help but wonder what the smaller member EU states (of whom there is a majority) will make of this because it is the larger countries who this will impact on most (all the net contributors) funnily enough.

As for the backstop, the UK will not put any physical border in place, the Irish are equally as adamant so let the EU decide how far they want to interfere with British teritorial land.

Perhaps Juncker will remain sober enough for a sufficient period to march his EU army up to the top of the hill then march it down again.

If matters deteriorate further I would like to think the UK will reconsider its position regarding security matters, NATO membership and troop deployments to the eastern section of the EU, not that I think they are actually real members other than in name and for the express benefit of self interest regarding finance and military protection.
Add the withdrawal of the UK nuclear deterrent into the equation and that will leave France as the sole provider. Germany is currently much weakened militarily (according to Sky who I am happy to believe) so that leaves Germany reliant on France....an interesting concept.

The above in quotes is intended to be taken as not too serious but more a way of portraying how a growing number of people here in the UK are perceiving matters, so don't go flying off the handle in outrage.

The UK has repeatedly expressed a wish for cordial relations and fair trade but the EU are acting like control freaks who's sole aim is to control everything on behalf of everybody. Whatever happened to the EEC?

The crux of the matter is the backstop and key to the future outcome, whatever that will be. There is a fair and balanced article IMHO on the matter below.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46546295

It is imperative that the whole situation is agreed upon and put to bed as quickly as possible because neither side and I must say in particular that of the EU is not projecting a positive image of itself on the world stage.

[Jimbuna]

Brexit: Your simple guide to the UK leaving the EU

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46318565

[Mr Quatro]

Hope it works out for you chaps ... cheerio

It sure seems like it is the right thing to do ... has the domino effect been discussed yet?

Brexit: the pros and cons of leaving the EU

https://www.theweek.co.uk/brexit-0

Pro-Brexit Labour MP Kate Hoey said at the time that the EU is ”an attempt to replace the democratic power of the people with a permanent administration in the interests of big business“. Those on the right of the Conservative party may disagree with her emphasis, but they share her view that EU institutions have drained power from the British parliament.

[Skybird]

Plenty of lukewarm words traded in Brussels. The EU so seriously reassures it wants only the best, and mutual ties, and wants to work for trade deals after Backstop, and bla and bla and bla. Nothing but warm words, nothing that could be used in a legal dispute, no legally binding stuff, nothing.



That May even said in wording that the EU must help her to change the perceptions of the deal in her parliament, shows her arrogance. To change the perception? No, Madam, its not about just perceptions, its about content, solid, legally binding content that would hold its gorund in case of a dispute before court. And regarding content, you stand as naked before your people as before. Talk about perceptions as long as you want, your new clothings are - nakedness.



"Perceptions". Pah.


Not even mentioning the many other concessions made by the UK. Practically all conflicting points were settled in the interest of the EU, not the UK. They will not let the UK off the hook over the Backstop issue.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Not even mentioning the many other concessions made by the UK. Practically all conflicting points were settled in the interest of the EU, not the UK. They will not let the UK off the hook over the Backstop issue.

Should that be the final outcome then we will find ourselves with a stark choice.....Remain or Brexit without a deal.

[STEED]

MayBot is keen to wast tax payers money on wasteful visits to the EU. If I was in that band I would be very angry. I think its time to call her MayDelayBot or MDB for short as she tries to prevent the up coming blow to her Brexit bill.

[Jimbuna]

Actually, she's attempting to gain improvements in order that support for her agreement will be forthcoming.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Actually, she's attempting to gain improvements in order that support for her agreement will be forthcoming.

The EU once again has made it clear..No more talks. They have put on their iron gloves to get the message home, May clearly angry at the delayed press conference she held as she walked in.

[Jimbuna]

It's never over till it's over.

[STEED]

Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz - current EU Council president - says that Brexit talks had "overshadowed" all other business at the Brussels summit.

Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel: "The ball is now politically in the British court."

Clearly they are getting fed up.



Moving on..The challenge against May was badly timed if they held off until the Brexit vote failed they could have made the vote closer.

[Skybird]

For connoisseurs and aficionados. To Jim and Steed, from Germany with love. Feel blessed with this woman, you two!

https://translate.google.de/translat...iese-Frau.html

Yes, there are retards like this in this mental asylum named Germany. Sad, but true.

[STEED]

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Skybird

For connoisseurs and aficionados. To Jim and Steed, from Germany with love. Feel blessed with this woman, you two!

https://translate.google.de/translat...iese-Frau.html

Yes, there are retards like this in this mental asylum named Germany. Sad, but true.

TBH Sky and despite having been a member of the Labour Party for 25 years (I left the day after Corbyn became leader) I'll never be a Tory supporter but Theresa May has earned my respect and admiration as the kind of leader one could rely on in a crisis, perhaps she modelled herself on Thatcher, who can say?

Her achilles heel IMHO is her failure to take on the advice of her advisors and tendancy to march into the eye of the storm despite alternative strategies being available.

It is now that the country should unite behind her because we are after all supposed to be a UNITED KINGDOM.

There is one thing I am steadfast about, if it is a no deal ending then not one penny of British taxpayers money should be handed over, in fact, the UK should demand a rebate towards the almost £200 billion debt we owed for many a year, the cost we paid to free Europe from some of their current allies.....a bit ironic really when you think about it.

Having said all that, I'm still optimistic some form of deal will be struck but Parliament will be the decider of the ultimate outcome.

[Jimbuna]

Juncker explains 'nebulous' remark...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...ebulous-remark

Today’s word is nebulous.....


Same word used by accountants when examining the EU's Annual Accounts.........................