[WIP] Japanese Campaign

[peabody]

Originally Posted by tater

I meant playable ships (subs).

Meaning replicate all the GE_XXXXXX folders as JP_XXXXXX, and have the game present us with THREE campaign options, USN, IJN, and KM.

I was just wondering if this was possible with 1.5. Seems like the best way would have been for them to define "playable" via some mechanism in the UPC files.

Again, I haven't looked, but that would be ideal. Note that you can always remap (clone) all the IJN subs so they do not take the place of the german ones.

The subs we use ARE cloned and do not replace the German ones. It does not create any problems in Japanese Campaign, it does create problem with adding to other Campaigns because some necessary files get overwritten. For example, flotilla files, Localization file etc.
With my limited knowledge I believe there are too many things we can't change to make the "replace GE_xxx to JP_xxxxx to work". I could be wrong, usually am, but I don't know how. I think there either is a lot that is hardcoded or there is stuff I don't know about.

Here is what I do know since I have done it.

I can make any country playable in the Pacific Campaign as long as the ship/sub is built on a Fleetboat.
I can make any country playable in the uboat Campaign as long as the ship/sub is built on a uboat.
I can change any ship/sub from friend to foe in either campaign as long as it is not the playable unit.

Here is an example in a German Single Mission;

That is a playable Porpoise Class Fleet Boat but is NOT set to "human control" therefore not the "playable unit" and I made it German. This is NOT a cloned sub it is the 'in game' Porpoise, the only change is I told the game it's German. (in fact if I hope I don't forget to go back and change it.)

The US Somers DD is shooting at it
the Japanese Takao is not shooting
the German Armed Merchant is not shooting at it.




You may already know these things, just saying what i know works, as for the rest a lot of it has links from somewhere, but I can't find somewhere.

So, I think some of the things you talk about may work, but would be a lot of work for little gain. I say little gain because you will have to decide which files to use if you make it all Japanese. If you use the German files, you will be limited by those files, if you choose to base it on the Allied side you will use those files. All this can be done much easier by just building your Japanese sub with either a uboat or a fleet boat as the base for it and all the files become available automatically from that side.

Just my 2cents anyway from a very limited knowledge of the game and the inner workings.

Edit: I noticed the new post after I posted this (I had to leave to snowblow the driveway) and the Single missions are not separate, I don't remember if they were in 1.4 or not. So it is things like that I am talking about. There are files that just don't apply. What makes it pick the

"Quick Mission"

instead of:
6070=AMERICAN SINGLE MISSIONS
6071=GERMAN SINGLE MISSIONS
????

And why does it say "Submarine School"
instead of:
6065=NAVAL SUBMARINE SCHOOL
6066=NAVAL ACADEMY MÜRWIK

And when you click on Submarine School it says "American Submarine School" or you switch sides and it says "German Submarine School" so the actual words listed are not used but probably link to the terms that actually are used in the game.

Must be in the menu stuff I guess, but there are so many things like that.

Peabody

[Sledgehammer427]

I usually Ctrl-F the word when i open up a document. done deal.
interesting research,btw

[peabody]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer427

I usually Ctrl-F the word when i open up a document. done deal.
interesting research,btw

Thanks Sledgehammer.
When I said "but there are so many things like that" I meant everywhere, not just the menu file. But you are right Ctrl F is very handy indeed. But I have used it and found things pointing to files that don't exist. Probably some things left over from SH3 or things that didn't get finished in time.
That is why I have great respect for the modders, they spent a lot of time figuring this stuff out. SH4 is my first ever attempt at modding and it is rewarding sometimes but a pain in the butt other times.
And another reason I like the ideas and comments, sometimes I don't agree, sometimes I have no idea how to do it, but it keeps me thinking and occasionally leads to something unexpected. Maybe even totally different than what I was originally looking for.

Peabody

[GerritJ9]

It could well be that the sim's developers originally intended to include the option of five playable nations i.e. USN, IJN, KM, RN and RNethN, which would cover all navies which operated submarines in the Far East/Pacific (as SH4 is a Far East/Pacific sub sim, we can exclude other countries which operated subs in WW2 such as Poland, USSR, Italy, Norway etc.).
The numbers sequences and gaps point to such a possibility, for instance:

6065 NAVAL SUBMARINE SCHOOL
6066 NAVAL ACADEMY MÜRWIK
Now (hypothetically) add to these two:
6067 NAVAL ACADEMY ETA JIMA
6068 NAVAL ACADEMY DARTMOUTH (or, more accurately, HMS Dolphin)
6069 NAVAL ACADEMY DEN HELDER (or, because of the occupation of the Netherlands in 1940, NAVAL ACADEMY SOERABAJA)

Similarly, for Single Missions:

6070=AMERICAN SINGLE MISSIONS
6071=GERMAN SINGLE MISSIONS
adding:
6072=JAPANESE SINGLE MISSIONS
6073=BRITISH SINGLE MISSIONS
6074=DUTCH SINGLE MISSIONS

and going on to:
6075=AMERICAN WAR PATROLS
6076=GERMAN WAR PATROLS
again, adding:
6077=JAPANESE WAR PATROLS
6078=BRITISH WAR PATROLS
6079=DUTCH WAR PATROLS

etc.
Might be worth a look if it is possible to add a nation by making all the relevant files/folders and trying to get the links working. I doubt whether we can expect another addon for SH4 which would take care of this for us.

[peabody]

As much as I do find this interesting and want the discussion to continue, I think we have reached a point where the Japanese Campaign thread can be considered Hijacked and would kindly ask that we start a new thread for this discussion.
I do not want it to end but I think it needs it's own thread.

I participated in the discussion also, so I am not blaming anyone, but it is heading in a totally different direction. But I would like to see the discussion continue.

Peabody

[rubenandthejets]

Peabody and Keltso1 san
PM with requests for whatever you need and I will try to get this info on this end (Im based in Tokyo). Photos, translations whatever-it shall be my mission.

LOVE your work! LOVE IT!
Keep the goodness coming and I did say ANYTHING I can do to help.
Gambarre!

[keltos01]

Originally Posted by rubenandthejets

Peabody and Keltso1 san
PM with requests for whatever you need and I will try to get this info on this end (Im based in Tokyo). Photos, translations whatever-it shall be my mission.

LOVE your work! LOVE IT!
Keep the goodness coming and I did say ANYTHING I can do to help.
Gambarre!

arigatou

keltos

[rubenandthejets]

Just a tiny point about the numbers in screen shots. The gothic numbers seem a little out of place. Would it be possible to use the Japanese characters?
The signatures on any documents for promotion etc would look better with a "hanko" seal on them.

Sorry to nitpick and I hope you don't get the wrong impression This is truly awesome stuff!

PS Hope you overcome the launching planes / minisub problems. Managing to get a shore bombardment mission would be great too!

PPS Assorted photos from Japanese archives being searched for now. Crew of three native Japanese on it!

PPPS Re: ship traffic, off all the major rivers mouths near Japan: literally swarming with fishing boats, sampans and small commercial craft. I watch the trawlers and fishing boat fleets everyday at the entrance of Tokyo Bay, scuttling out of the way of RORO and container ships. Sailing on the surface within 10km of the coast near the four main islands without literally bumping into one would be almost impossible. On the upside not many were fitted with "rajios" so the IJN wouldn't know until they reached port.

[tater]

^^^ useful info.

While I've not been working on the IJN sub stuff, I HAVE been working on IJN ASW capability, and hopefully new merchant shipping. I think that all the ports could use some upgrades

tater

[peabody]

Originally Posted by rubenandthejets

Just a tiny point about the numbers in screen shots. The gothic numbers seem a little out of place. Would it be possible to use the Japanese characters?
The signatures on any documents for promotion etc would look better with a "hanko" seal on them.

Sorry to nitpick and I hope you don't get the wrong impression This is truly awesome stuff!

PS Hope you overcome the launching planes / minisub problems. Managing to get a shore bombardment mission would be great too!

PPS Assorted photos from Japanese archives being searched for now. Crew of three native Japanese on it!

PPPS Re: ship traffic, off all the major rivers mouths near Japan: literally swarming with fishing boats, sampans and small commercial craft. I watch the trawlers and fishing boat fleets everyday at the entrance of Tokyo Bay, scuttling out of the way of RORO and container ships. Sailing on the surface within 10km of the coast near the four main islands without literally bumping into one would be almost impossible. On the upside not many were fitted with "rajios" so the IJN wouldn't know until they reached port.

1. Japanese Characters on torp lights I assume you mean, the Japanese Characters I found for numbers were a quite large, several characters for each number. But we may be able to do it.

2 I will make a note of the Hanko seal. Possible.

3 Launching planes from the sub is not going to happen any time soon. I don't know if it can even be done.

4. The minisub works, it is just the way the game is, once you pick a sub for your career, you are stuck with it unless the game offers you a new one. I don't think anyone wants to play the Campaign with a minisub and two torpedos. We were thinking about putting in some Quick missions (single missions) with the minisub to infiltrate different harbors with a specific target.

5. Shore bombardment did happen in the US so we may include one for historical reasons. But there really isn't much to shoot at with a sub.


@ Tater:

What exactly did you mean by "I think that all the ports could use some upgrade" Are you talking traffic?

Peabody

[tater]

Mwhahaha.

You'll see in a bit.

[peabody]

Originally Posted by tater

Mwhahaha.

You'll see in a bit.

Thanks Tater my Mwhahaha has been broken for a while now, how soon do you think it will be fixed?

When someone starts a message with Mwhahaha, I know I'll be switching to easy mode.

Peabody

[tater]

Peabody san, if you are an I-boat skipper, this stuff is on your side

[rubenandthejets]

Cheers, Peabody.

5. Shore bombardment did happen in the US so we may include one for historical reasons. But there really isn't much to shoot at with a sub.

Sydney harbour was attacked by midget subs trying to get the USS Chicago (they sunk a floating dormitory instead ) while the mother ship waited offshore lobbing shells into suburbia. Please don't forget the little people in Australia! We got hit too!

The port of Darwin in northern Australia was hammered from the air in Feb 1942, as was the seaplane base in Broome, on the NW coast. Including these ports / bases in the map (Broome and Darwin dont exist in SH1.4 vanilla) in the Japanese campaign would make all the Oz skippers very happy indeed.

As for minisubs, I thought just carrying them to the drop off point in the mother sub would be the mission-not a very high survival rate for mini subs, unless you consider the immortality achieved by being on permanant display in some foreign war memorial!! Bloddy things might as well be a Kaiten! Wave goodbye to the uppity XO, seal him into his first and last command of his own and get back to your own career by teasing the local DDs into hunting you with a few shells into defenceless suburbia. Now that's a mission!

[keltos01]

[quote=rubenandthejets]Cheers, Peabody.

5. Shore bombardment did happen in the US so we may include one for historical reasons. But there really isn't much to shoot at with a sub.
they even cancelled the second shelling that was to take place on XMas day 1941
Sydney harbour was attacked by midget subs trying to get the USS Chicago (they sunk a floating dormitory instead ) while the mother ship waited offshore lobbing shells into suburbia. Please don't forget the little people in Australia! We got hit too!
so you mean that my Ko-Hyoteki stand alone should be included in the campaign?
The port of Darwin in northern Australia was hammered from the air in Feb 1942, as was the seaplane base in Broome, on the NW coast. Including these ports / bases in the map (Broome and Darwin dont exist in SH1.4 vanilla) in the Japanese campaign would make all the Oz skippers very happy indeed.

As for minisubs, I thought just carrying them to the drop off point in the mother sub would be the mission-not a very high survival rate for mini subs, unless you consider the immortality achieved by being on permanant display in some foreign war memorial!!
Bloddy things might as well be a Kaiten!
actually, at the end of war, since they were short on sub torpedoes, minisubs were fitted with a nose-explosive charge, and thsu became Kaitens too !!!!
Wave goodbye to the uppity XO, seal him into his first and last command of his own and get back to your own career by teasing the local DDs into hunting you with a few shells into defenceless suburbia. Now that's a mission!

could you post the japanese numerals you thought of ? just upload the jpg on http://www.imageshack.us/ copy the link in the hotlink for forums (1) in here and we'll see them.


keltos