Having some issues getting started

yoevro · 11-05-13, 05:37 PM

Hi, all.
I've been getting back into SH4 recently, and have been enjoying it except for one fairly big problem. I know there are plenty of posts on this topic, but none of them seem to remedy the problem, if in fact i'm following instructions properly.

the issue is this: i simply cannot escape enemy destroyers. no matter how deep or quiet i run, i find them circling right above me.

here's an example:
I set up a mission to experiment, and practice my targeting. the mission starts with me in position to attack one merchant and one escort from a 90 degree angle at 1700 yards at periscope depth, all stopped and running silent. The ship passes in front of me, and I fire my torps as normal. I decided to attack the escort at the same time, so i fired 2 more at high speed in the direction of the escort, and immediately dove to 350ft to avoid detection. the first 2 torpedoes hit the merchant perfectly. the DD managed to dodge the torps that i fired, and immediately turned toward me and began an attack. at this point, my sub engines haven't been run, i'm still in silent running, and well below the thermal layer, and yet the destroyer still knows where i am well enough to try and charge me. even after several attempts to creep away at 1-2 knots at depths up to 500 ft, i still am being attacked. help?

Also, the only mod i'm using is TMO 2.5

Thanks!
Evro

Dread Knot · 11-05-13, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoevro

Also, the only mod i'm using is TMO 2.5

There's your answer. In TMO the sensor capabilities of Japanese destroyers (and other ships) are pumped to a supernatural level that the Allies fighting the U-boats in the Atlantic would have envied.

yoevro · 11-05-13, 06:18 PM

thanks for the reply.

Is there any mod out there to correct this?

Dread Knot · 11-05-13, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoevro

thanks for the reply.

Is there any mod out there to correct this?

I guess you could always try RFB. (Real Fleet Boat)

fireftr18 · 11-05-13, 10:32 PM

Adding RSRDC will change the surface ship's capabilities closer to historical levels.

yoevro · 11-05-13, 11:07 PM

cool. i'll try that out. i thought i remembered rsrd making it tougher, but it's been a while since i played it. thanks for the tip.

Armistead · 11-05-13, 11:34 PM

You'll figure it out in time.....One thing with TMO as is, often your goal is to get your attack off before spotted, knowing you're probably going to come under attack afterwards.

Playing TMO, evading the attack and escaping is the key, but they're numerous tactics to fool the AI...

TorpX · 11-06-13, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yoevro

the issue is this: i simply cannot escape enemy destroyers. no matter how deep or quiet i run, i find them circling right above me.

here's an example:
I set up a mission to experiment, and practice my targeting. the mission starts with me in position to attack one merchant and one escort from a 90 degree angle at 1700 yards at periscope depth, all stopped and running silent. The ship passes in front of me, and I fire my torps as normal. I decided to attack the escort at the same time, so i fired 2 more at high speed in the direction of the escort, and immediately dove to 350ft to avoid detection. the first 2 torpedoes hit the merchant perfectly. the DD managed to dodge the torps that i fired, and immediately turned toward me and began an attack. at this point, my sub engines haven't been run, i'm still in silent running, and well below the thermal layer, and yet the destroyer still knows where i am well enough to try and charge me. even after several attempts to creep away at 1-2 knots at depths up to 500 ft, i still am being attacked. help?

Also, the only mod i'm using is TMO 2.5

Thanks!
Evro

First, a mission where you are already in torpedo range of a target teaches you very little. It's possible that you are intantly detected the second the missions begins.

Second, it matters little being still and using silent running, when you launch torpedoes. They will see the torpedo tracks in a minute and will know where you fired from whether or not they can hear you.

yoevro · 11-06-13, 01:37 AM

Thanks for the tips. Said mission is mainly used to practice gathering info needed for the TDC (range, speed, heading, etc) using the various instruments on the sub, and the enemy ships start out just over 7,000 yards away (the previously stated 1700 yards is distance to the enemy ship's track). i suppose being detected on the start of the mission isn't too far fetched, but the DD doesnt seem to know i'm there until it gets several thousand yards closer. Even then it detects me before any shots are fired.

typically i do expect to come under attack/be detected in some form after the torpedoes have been spotted, or have detonated, and i can live with needing to apply a few tactics to escape. It makes the game more exciting when there's an element of danger. i THINK i'm doing what the posts i've read say to do.

this is what i have so far:
go deep, evade depth charge attacks, run at low rpms (especially when in front of an enemy ship). i must be missing something because i just cant seem to get very far before hearing the dreadful ping again. what i think is happening is that the passive sonar on the enemy ship is still picking me up while stationary or at +-1 knot. Could time compression cause this, maybe? i understand that it isnt supposed to be easy, but i want to get at least a few successful escapes before i start getting very deep into a campaign. anymore tips would be greatly appreciated.

thanks alot for the help, guys.

Armistead · 11-06-13, 09:32 AM

Just try to stack as many things in your favor before you attack. One of the worse things you can do is attack in dead calm water, but sometimes you have no choice. Sometimes it's best to track and see what happens.

Stay narrow as possible to the nearest escort...Usually what gets a ping is when your broadside is exposed to an escort.

When you do come under attack, the typical evasion method is to go deep, when the enemy starts his run, hit flank, add a small turn. Almost always the charges will fall behind you, you're simply outrunning them. Then go back to silent.

Sometimes it's best to wait to night and do a surface attack. Crse mods vary, but with TMO or RSRD you'll have to do them long range. Shoot from about 6000 yards with M14's from your sterns and haul tail. THey will come out there searching, leaving a flank exposed. Go in attack that flank..

yoevro · 11-06-13, 03:16 PM

Thanks, Armistead. That turned out to be pretty good advice. apparently weather and daylight affect the enemy's ability to find me alot more than i expected. i tried several more attacks with this in mind, as well as cross section, and had a good bit more success. however, i did find something a bit strange. when attacking at night, the AI DD never found me, and i couldve escaped if i wanted. Here's the weird part, i came back to PD and noticed the DD wasn't moving. he started pinging me, but never moved, so i fired the 2 torps i had left which happened to be slow, and the DD never even tried to dodge. is that supposed to happen?

merc4ulfate · 11-06-13, 08:15 PM

Your evasion technique needs some work. If you have fire your first torpedoes the escorts already know your general bearing.

Make the most of the time you have between firing and them being on top of you by going flank. This will move you, help you dive even faster and once your past 200 feet you can cut back to slow to make less noise. As soon as you cut back turn 45 degrees while still diving in the opposite direction of the escort.

Get deeper. ... now that your deeper .... go deeper.

If you add some of the better environmental mods you'll not only get a better visual on water and clouds but it aids in making attacks in the fog.

I have some environmental settings from a mod and I just made a day time surface attack on a huge convoy escorted by at least two destroyers and four smaller escorts. I managed to sink 5 ships and score three deck gun hits on an escort without any of them seeing due to the limiting fog bank. Being that you can make out silhouettes and you visually tell the difference between escorts and merchants and steer according to avoid being attacked yourself.

If I had been submerged they would have heard my engines but it was 1940 and the British didn't have the radar to see me on the surface. I'm on my way to New York to see what kind of trouble I can get in with Admiral Doenitz .

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11-05-13, 10:32 PM	#5
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Adding RSRDC will change the surface ship's capabilities closer to historical levels. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

11-05-13, 11:34 PM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	You'll figure it out in time.....One thing with TMO as is, often your goal is to get your attack off before spotted, knowing you're probably going to come under attack afterwards. Playing TMO, evading the attack and escaping is the key, but they're numerous tactics to fool the AI... __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

11-06-13, 09:32 AM	#10
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Just try to stack as many things in your favor before you attack. One of the worse things you can do is attack in dead calm water, but sometimes you have no choice. Sometimes it's best to track and see what happens. Stay narrow as possible to the nearest escort...Usually what gets a ping is when your broadside is exposed to an escort. When you do come under attack, the typical evasion method is to go deep, when the enemy starts his run, hit flank, add a small turn. Almost always the charges will fall behind you, you're simply outrunning them. Then go back to silent. Sometimes it's best to wait to night and do a surface attack. Crse mods vary, but with TMO or RSRD you'll have to do them long range. Shoot from about 6000 yards with M14's from your sterns and haul tail. THey will come out there searching, leaving a flank exposed. Go in attack that flank.. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

11-05-13, 05:37 PM	#1
yoevro Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 13 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Having some issues getting started Hi, all. I've been getting back into SH4 recently, and have been enjoying it except for one fairly big problem. I know there are plenty of posts on this topic, but none of them seem to remedy the problem, if in fact i'm following instructions properly. the issue is this: i simply cannot escape enemy destroyers. no matter how deep or quiet i run, i find them circling right above me. here's an example: I set up a mission to experiment, and practice my targeting. the mission starts with me in position to attack one merchant and one escort from a 90 degree angle at 1700 yards at periscope depth, all stopped and running silent. The ship passes in front of me, and I fire my torps as normal. I decided to attack the escort at the same time, so i fired 2 more at high speed in the direction of the escort, and immediately dove to 350ft to avoid detection. the first 2 torpedoes hit the merchant perfectly. the DD managed to dodge the torps that i fired, and immediately turned toward me and began an attack. at this point, my sub engines haven't been run, i'm still in silent running, and well below the thermal layer, and yet the destroyer still knows where i am well enough to try and charge me. even after several attempts to creep away at 1-2 knots at depths up to 500 ft, i still am being attacked. help? Also, the only mod i'm using is TMO 2.5 Thanks! Evro

11-05-13, 06:18 PM	#3
yoevro Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 13 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	thanks for the reply. Is there any mod out there to correct this?

11-05-13, 11:07 PM	#6
yoevro Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 13 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	cool. i'll try that out. i thought i remembered rsrd making it tougher, but it's been a while since i played it. thanks for the tip.

11-06-13, 01:37 AM	#9
yoevro Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 13 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the tips. Said mission is mainly used to practice gathering info needed for the TDC (range, speed, heading, etc) using the various instruments on the sub, and the enemy ships start out just over 7,000 yards away (the previously stated 1700 yards is distance to the enemy ship's track). i suppose being detected on the start of the mission isn't too far fetched, but the DD doesnt seem to know i'm there until it gets several thousand yards closer. Even then it detects me before any shots are fired. typically i do expect to come under attack/be detected in some form after the torpedoes have been spotted, or have detonated, and i can live with needing to apply a few tactics to escape. It makes the game more exciting when there's an element of danger. i THINK i'm doing what the posts i've read say to do. this is what i have so far: go deep, evade depth charge attacks, run at low rpms (especially when in front of an enemy ship). i must be missing something because i just cant seem to get very far before hearing the dreadful ping again. what i think is happening is that the passive sonar on the enemy ship is still picking me up while stationary or at +-1 knot. Could time compression cause this, maybe? i understand that it isnt supposed to be easy, but i want to get at least a few successful escapes before i start getting very deep into a campaign. anymore tips would be greatly appreciated. thanks alot for the help, guys.

11-06-13, 03:16 PM	#11
yoevro Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 13 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Thanks, Armistead. That turned out to be pretty good advice. apparently weather and daylight affect the enemy's ability to find me alot more than i expected. i tried several more attacks with this in mind, as well as cross section, and had a good bit more success. however, i did find something a bit strange. when attacking at night, the AI DD never found me, and i couldve escaped if i wanted. Here's the weird part, i came back to PD and noticed the DD wasn't moving. he started pinging me, but never moved, so i fired the 2 torps i had left which happened to be slow, and the DD never even tried to dodge. is that supposed to happen?

11-06-13, 08:15 PM	#12
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	Your evasion technique needs some work. If you have fire your first torpedoes the escorts already know your general bearing. Make the most of the time you have between firing and them being on top of you by going flank. This will move you, help you dive even faster and once your past 200 feet you can cut back to slow to make less noise. As soon as you cut back turn 45 degrees while still diving in the opposite direction of the escort. Get deeper. ... now that your deeper .... go deeper. If you add some of the better environmental mods you'll not only get a better visual on water and clouds but it aids in making attacks in the fog. I have some environmental settings from a mod and I just made a day time surface attack on a huge convoy escorted by at least two destroyers and four smaller escorts. I managed to sink 5 ships and score three deck gun hits on an escort without any of them seeing due to the limiting fog bank. Being that you can make out silhouettes and you visually tell the difference between escorts and merchants and steer according to avoid being attacked yourself. If I had been submerged they would have heard my engines but it was 1940 and the British didn't have the radar to see me on the surface. I'm on my way to New York to see what kind of trouble I can get in with Admiral Doenitz . Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 OpsMonsun_V705 OMv705_to_V720 OMv720_Patch5 OMEGU_v300 OMEGU_v300_Patch7 OM_Harder_Escort_L2 UBM Missions Popular German Music From The 30´s OM_Pac_Env #1 Real Environment mod install