[REL] Playable Russian Subs

[The Bandit]

I haven't done anything with the textures but I just did a config based off of the Foxtrot class for the GUPPYs / Fleetboats (12 variations overall). You have to overlook the 3rd screw but other than that the size is just about right. Started a campaign with USS Sirago, sunk a Foxtrot and a Whisky but then got destroyed by a November because I was using active sonar during a storm.

I've also made two variations of the USS Tullibee (68 & 84) based off of the Permit and USS Glenard P. Lipscomb based off the Sturgeon.

[Carthaginian]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

I haven't done anything with the textures but I just did a config based off of the Foxtrot class for the GUPPYs / Fleetboats (12 variations overall). You have to overlook the 3rd screw but other than that the size is just about right. Started a campaign with USS Sirago, sunk a Foxtrot and a Whisky but then got destroyed by a November because I was using active sonar during a storm.

I've also made two variations of the USS Tullibee (68 & 84) based off of the Permit and USS Glenard P. Lipscomb based off the Sturgeon.

I used the Whiskey because it 'looked the part' even if it wasn't physically as large.
My Tang is using the Romeo for the same reason. I adjusted some internal values (turn speed, noise, etc) to compensate. Tang is very early in work ATM.

I didn't put out all the 'versions' of the GUPPY boats because the I, II, IA, IIA, IB and III were all fairly similar in capabilities... battery power was one of the biggest differentiations, and that isn't represented yet (though I have the drain rates for the Sargo, Guppy and Sargo II batteries). There were some internal differentiations as well, but those were out of the game's scope.
I picked the IIA because I had a distant relative who was in Quillback near the end of her career.
I have been looking for good data on the types of torps the Taiwanese GUPPY IIIs use, so I can do them justice as well.
And of course the Fleet Snorkles were really not that much more advanced than their parent classes... very austure.
Also working on data for the 1950's Sov boats, so the GUPPYs have more targets.
Might go after the Han-class after that.

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by Carthaginian

I didn't put out all the 'versions' of the GUPPY boats because the I, II, IA, IIA, IB and III were all fairly similar in capabilities... battery power was one of the biggest differentiations, and that isn't represented yet (though I have the drain rates for the Sargo, Guppy and Sargo II batteries). There were some internal differentiations as well, but those were out of the game's scope.
I picked the IIA because I had a distant relative who was in Quillback near the end of her career.
I have been looking for good data on the types of torps the Taiwanese GUPPY IIIs use, so I can do them justice as well.
And of course the Fleet Snorkles were really not that much more advanced than their parent classes... very austure.
.

What I did was based off of what was still in service as of 1968 with the exception of some of the test boats like Grouper and Bay which were basically floating laboratories.

For the GUPPY, I consolidated the IA and IIAs as they were in general very similar (a bit slower because of the Sargo II batteries). So you have GUPPY IA/IIA, II, and III, two variants each for the difference between the Balao and Tench. While their test depth isn't any difference, the Tench's had a stronger hull thanks to revisions with the ballast tanks (everything earlier than tench had tank risers going through the front torpedo compartment) so I give them about a 50 ft. increase in test depth.

The other six variants are the Fleetboat Snorkels (Balao & Tench respectively) Gato SSKs, "Balao SSKs" (which were just Balao snorkels with BQR-4 sonar) the Gato class auxiliaries (leftovers from the radar pickets mostly) and the two Balao LPSS SEAL transports (one of which was used in Vietnam).

I left out anything that had been taken out of service before the setting of the 1968 campaign, so no GUPPY IBs or some of the other variations.

As for the Taiwanese boats, I think they are GUPPY IIs not IIIs and to the best of my knowledge they use old US Mk 14s and possibly Mk 37s. Not sure how accurate this is but I disabled the wire-guidance on the older boats as I'm not sure if they got the fire-control upgrades to even make wire-guidance possible.

Next thing I think is using the Tango class to stand-in for the USS Seawolf SSN-575.

[Carthaginian]

IIRC, Janes called them GUPPY III. I have an 06 I got at a yard sale, I'll check in AM. Also, Italians gave them torps as tubes were welded shut and no torps per terms of sale. Not sure which, but between Janes and Conways, I'll get it sorted.
I think the test depth difference came in the Tench kinda late in the class as machinary wasn't up to the 450' max even though the hull could handle it - if nothing else, that warrants a subclass indeed.

[CaptainX3]

Mod updated!

[cj95]

Originally Posted by Carthaginian

I
I didn't put out all the 'versions' of the GUPPY boats because the I, II, IA, IIA, IB and III were all fairly similar in capabilities....

What about the SSK mod boats? Any big advantages or disadvantages there?

We've got USS Cavalla here is town and Ive always wondered how they compare to the GUPPYs

[The Bandit]

Originally Posted by cj95

What about the SSK mod boats? Any big advantages or disadvantages there?

We've got USS Cavalla here is town and Ive always wondered how they compare to the GUPPYs

The SSKs were interesting in a few ways. They were more austere compared to what went on with the GUPPYs when it comes to all the battery and electric motor replacement and so on. They did get a streamlined sail and a little help in the hydrodynamics department with some of the streamlining, but for the most part they weren't going to be much faster underwater than your average fleet-boat. However, they did receive one of the best sonar sets out (AN/BQR-4) until the spherical array came along in the 60s.

Basically the SSKs were ambush boats designed to sit along a barrier (say GIUK Gap or maybe the Windward passage?) and listen for anything that's transiting through the area. Originally they were planning on mass-producing the Barracuda class, which was basically the smallest, cheapest boat possible built around the sonar array. Instead, what they ended up doing is dragging a bunch of the old Gatos out of moth-balls because it was cheaper. While you did need more crew and were certainly getting a bigger boat than you needed you had much better time on station, and the Gatos were a known commodity after what they did in the pacific.

The other interesting thing about the SSKs is why the Gatos were chosen. One of the other things about the GUPPYs, very few (really none in US service, they converted like 4 of them for Italy to austere GUPPY 1B standards) were Gato class, mainly because the Balao and Tench had the thick HTS (High-Tensile Steel) pressure hulls so they could dive deeper, and, while some of these Balaos and Tenches had little to no wear or use, the entire Gato class had been very busy during the war.

One of the other things they used the SSK program for is as a dress-rehearsal for reactivating the moth-ball fleet. If a war started during the 50s and those boats were needed, they would be needed in a hurry and wouldn't all be receiving GUPPY conversions. The SSK program at least brought them up to a level where they could take on picket duty guarding various places and freeing up other (presumably better equipped GUPPY boats) for more general purpose stuff like offensive operations.

[MrBboy]

Hey, I'm getting black screen on selecting Red October and I need to hit "Back" button to be able to do anything.

[CowabungaKid89]

Same problem here, when I select Red October the selection menu freezes (can't select other boats anymore) and I have to back out of the menu. Other than that, I really like this mod

[CaptainX3]

Yep, I've been made aware of this problem yesterday. I'll have it fixed in the next mod update, but the next update is gonna take me a couple days because it's a big one.

For now, it's really easy to fix the error on your end - it's being caused by an extra comma in a file that I screwed up.

Open this text file on your PC:

override\campaign\campaign001\summary.txt

You'll see this paragraph at the top of the file. The offending comma is right at the end of the yellow text highlighted below. Delete that extra comma, and the error will be fixed.

PlayerVessels=usn_ssn_narwhal,usn_ss_guppyIIa,usn_ ss_barbel_68,usn_ss_barbel,jmsdf_ss_yushio,usn_ssn _skipjack,usn_ssn_permit,usn_ssn_sturgeon,usn_ssn_ los_angeles,usn_ssn_los_angeles_688i,player_ssbn_o hio,player_ssbn_ohio_vls,player_ss_whiskey,player_ ss_tango,player_ss_romeo,player_ss_foxtrot,player_ ss_kilo,player_ssn_november,player_ssn_alfa,player _ssn_victor1,player_ssn_victor2,player_ssn_victor3 ,player_ssn_sierra,player_ssg_juliet,player_ssgn_e cho2,player_ssgn_charlie1,player_ssgn_charlie2,pla yer_ssgn_oscar,player_ssbn_yankee,player_ssbn_delt a3,player_ssbn_delta4,player_ssbn_typhoon,player_s sbn_typhoon_vls,player_ssbn_redoctober,,player_ssbn_redoctober_silent

Sorry about that guys, my mistake. It'll be correct in the next update, but the next update is taking me a lot longer because I finally got visible masts working for all classes, but I have to manually map the mast coordinates for each class, so it's a slow process LOL.

[CaptainX3]

Mod updated! This was a big update, so please bear with me and report any bugs you spot! Thank you!

[cj95]

Originally Posted by The Bandit

The SSKs were interesting in a few ways......

Thanks for the info sir. Ive always been interested but have found it hard to find info on the SSK with them being overshadowed by the GUPPYs.


Very interesting!

[CowabungaKid89]

You put in a 212A <3 I thought of fiddling with the files myself to maybe put in a 209 stand-in, because the 212 seems a little bit overpowered for 1984. But now that it's there...
You, Sir, are amazing. I salute you.
Edit: SelfNoise=25? Dear God, I can basically glue this thing to the hull of an enemy sub without them noticing.
Edit 2: you gave the Seehecht 75 KYD range. o.O I'll probably dial that down to 50k or 55k on my end, that's about what I found on navweapons.com and wikipedia as well.
Edit 3: correction, SelfNoise=25 *AND* ActiveSonarReflection=4. I am a fish. Nothing to see here, Ma'am. Please keep moving.
Edit 4: seems like that wasn't even much of an exaggeration. See screenshot for details.

[CaptainX3]

The 212A was sent in by a contributor. I didn't even look at it's stats LOL. But that is pretty overpowered, I'll need to dial that back a bit I think LOL.

[LeopardDriver]

Those values are pretty hard to determine. First the real data is strictly classified. Second it is hard to estimate how it would behave in comparison to other subs. Third the sub still needs to be balanced somewhat (that is your point).

I tried to make it as realistic as possible and did a lot of testing. You can still detect the 212A with active sonar, as can be seen in the duels. The sub is kind of balanced out in the campaign with the low ammo count (only 13 torps) and the low speed (20 knots is official, but I would say 23 at least is realistic, maybe even 25).

At long range of the Seehecht just achived the world record for a torpedo with about 140 km acutually! So 75 km for the normal variant is ok. Also the sub needs to be played like that: hide and attack from pretty long range, and the Seehecht is good for that (but it is slower than the Mk 48 for sure).

Also one note: The project started as Typ 212, but it was cancelled as that. The restart was the 212A, so there was never a 212 and 212A is the right name.

Thanks for the feedback and I hope you have fun with the 212A and the Seawolf! I am doing some refinements with the rudders, the periscope and the sonar files and so on, might come with a later update!