US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by August

Interesting bit of news.

Apparently "some" EU supporters are trying to break up my country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Brexit-support

"The newly elected US president was happy that the Brexit was taking place and has asked other countries to do the same," European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said. However, he warned, "if he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas, in the United States of America."

Right answer

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

"The newly elected US president was happy that the Brexit was taking place and has asked other countries to do the same," European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said. However, he warned, "if he goes on like that I am going to promote the independence of Ohio and Austin, Texas, in the United States of America."

Right answer

No, a revealing answer. It shows what an understanding of the eU as a continental one-size-fits-all superstate he has. His answer would fit if Trump would have called for Bavaria or Saxony to leave the German state. But the national states in the EU union do not compare to the status of federal states in the German state.

It is arrogance like this that will alienate the EU more and more from the people. You cannot just trample on the historically grown feelings of identity of people in local regions and replace it with an artifical, life-less theoretic construct basing on so universal perspectives that all and everybody can read something into them and no individual identity is recognizable anymore. This is so deeply in our genes and bases so fundamentally on - in the end - our desire to form famlies and protect them, that it always will raise hostility if you dismantle these base structures - and such histility then is pure existential self-defence.

Right these ways of proceedings the eU practices today, led the Roman republic into the imperial (dictatorial) order that followed the collapse - and the empirical and sociological evidences that the EU is following the same path, are very strong.

As Niklas Luhman put it: all identity forming comes from inevitable discrimination and defining of what one is not. You cannot be somebody if you do not differentiate between yourself and the other, and accept differences to be there. To assume that that is possible, is a logical fallacy, and a sociological folly. If practicing this violation in the name of a new sociological world order, such combining of the political and sociological demand in one gives birth to what we call fascism.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Skybird

[...]

It is arrogance like this that will alienate the EU more and more from the people. You cannot just trample on the historically grown feelings of identity of people in local regions and replace it with an artifical, life-less theoretic construct [...]

Ah yes, tell this to Scotland, Wales, Ireland.
This is something that has grown over centuries, and your genes are not interested if you are born 20 miles left or right e.g. of the french-german border.
The patriotic feelings of "nations" (a rather new artificial concept b.t.w.) is what gives you an excuse for invading your neighbours, when any common sense tells you it is bovine scatology.
What do you think all those tribes thought about a unified Germany back then? House of Hannover? Bavaria? Let's go back and be happy? lmao.

What about the positive aspects of the EU? It is all so self-evident and "boring", and no need to boast about accomplishments all the time. People tend to forget how it was before. But if some bigmouths climb their soapbox and shout the EU is damned everybody has to listen to him? Desinformation rules, and the loudest bigmouth is right? Punch him in the face and drag him down!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by August

Interesting bit of news.

Apparently "some" EU supporters are trying to break up my country.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Brexit-support

I shouldn't take him too seriously If I were you. I doubt anyone outside of the EU does but be thankful for one thing....he didn't get close enough to the POTUS to give him one of his 'infamous' kisses or slaps around the head.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Ah yes, tell this to Scotland, Wales, Ireland.

As I have repeatedly said in the past: they have my best wishes if they want to leave the UK, and they have any natural right to do so if that is what I want. Like Cataluniyans have any righ to fall out of Spain, because the other Spaniards do not own them, they are not their slaves or possession. Nobody is born for the sake of somebody else. The only thing I nsist on is that they do not demand others - us Germans, the EU - to pay their bills then. They must know what it means for their economic future if they vote for independence. A people claiming sovereignty and independence, but being unable to pay for its living and cannot afford it, is neither independent nor sovereign. And German employees and workers already pay more than enough and get plundered their rewards they have woked for - why should others have any claim for these, and even raise these claims even more? So if the Welsh, Irish and Scots want to leave, fine - I do not oppose them - but have your fricking bills paid by yourself, I tell them. Be sure you can afford what you want. Do not demand us to pay for your wishes.

This is something that has grown over centuries, and your genes are not interested if you are born 20 miles left or right e.g. of the french-german border.

The drive to make babies and form families and from there: tribal structures, is rooting in your genes since thousands and tens of thousands of years, you can assume that. Its dirctly linked to the sexual drive. And from that comes forming of tribal culture, and with some more steps in-between, in the modern era, the forming of national states. Just 300 years ago Germans had an understanding of themselves being one group, and yet: a group internally differentiated by cities and dukedoms, nevertheless united by shared experiences and shared language. Since one thisuands years, Europe knows of "the Germans", although there wa sno united, single, one national German state for centuries to come.

But at the very basis, at the fundament is the core family, and has always been: father, mother, children. Why do you think the left wants to destroy families and their internal mutual loyalties, and replace it with state- and ideology driven constructions and "alternative" settings? Because it is the basis of the social communal structure of what they hate so much: the burgeoise society. Like they want to destroy capitalism by destroying money, they want to destroy society by destroying family. They think then they have the free space created to form their new dystopic one-size-fits-all collective.

The EU is drunk of these concepts.

And so the Eu has to be teared down, in self defence, and replaced with a setting of utual trade agreements with far smaller ambitions that should not lead beyond just trade. What kind of culture a local population in a region wants to have, is somethign that o EU fat cat and no damn leftist ideologist has to lecture them on and has to impose on them against their will. The EU bahves like feudal landlors owning the peasant living on their lands and owing their work and the fruits of their labour to them. And this is where even violence is legitimate to end this slaverish regime.

Augustine may have brought back stability, law and order to Rome after the collapse of the first republic. But the price was a hefty one: military dictatorship, a massive decline of freedom, an mperial redesign of the plticla system, an establishing of heritable politicla power, and a massice loss of former civil lberties and freedoms. But this is what we all head for once again in Europe, once the EU has fallen apart - and it is set to fall apart for sure like the first republic, and for almost the same reasons. The parrallels are breathtaking.

But there is one big difference: the pax romana following was possible last but not least due to the military power of Rome after Sulla'S reforms and the professionalization of the army. Europea today however has developed a so strong pacifism and demilitarised basic attitude that one can hardly imagine that Europe would project military power to enforce its demands outside its imperial core and periphery in a comparable fashion like Rome was willing - and sometimes, though not always, actually carrying out - to do. An enforced pax europaea for exampel towards the ME or Russia, is hardly imaginable. The substantial willingess to use physical force is much stronger in the orient, than in the modern occident.

The patriotic feelings of "nations" (a rather new artificial concept b.t.w.) is what gives you an excuse for invading your neighbours, when any common sense tells you it is bovine scatology.

That is more nationalism than patriotism. However, a group of French will feel more shared similarities amongst themseves when travelling in Poland, than a mixed group of Europeans travelling in Poland. But a group of mixed Europeans, despite their differences, will feel more similiarities of their shared cultural heritage again - Hellenism, Romanism, Christian tradition and all that - if they travel together as a tourist group in China, whch is a very different cultural and ethnic context.

We are not all the same, and the level to which we share same roots and preconditions, varies. Ignoring this, is not helpful, but does a lot of dmaage, even causes conflict. The problem then is less the other, the foreign, but the situation we allowed to arise and that we should have wanted to avoid.

What do you think all those tribes thought about a unified Germany back then? House of Hannover? Bavaria? Let's go back and be happy? lmao.

Stupid shortcutting and simplifications just to fire an snappy reply does not make me look foolish, but yourself. And Europe knows of and speaks of "the Germans" (not the "Germanic people", but "the Germans") since roughly one thousand years. For most of that time, a single German national state nevertheless did not exist. Strange.

[August]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I shouldn't take him too seriously If I were you. I doubt anyone outside of the EU does but be thankful for one thing....he didn't get close enough to the POTUS to give him one of his 'infamous' kisses or slaps around the head.

I didn't think so but it would be fun (on both sides of the pond I suspect) to watch the Secret Service gang tackle him if he were to try it.

[Catfish]

Regarding Juncker's quote i really wonder if some people here have a lesser sense of humour than it is always said of Germans

[vienna]

This from The Late Show with Stephen Colbert:





So, how long before Trump signs an EO to build a wall around Colbert?...



<O>

[Mr Quatro]

I actually saw a major news station on last night's evening news that did not mention Trump or Russia one single time

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I actually saw a major news station on last night's evening news that did not mention Trump or Russia one single time

*checks posting date*
Mhyeah right, right...

[Platapus]

I would think that today would be a most appropriate day for news stories about Trump.

[Mr Quatro]

Well there was one April Fool's joke today that came to my attention ... in fact I still wonder if it's true.

Breaking: NFL will force Stephen Ross to sell the Miami Dolphins
Read more at http://cover32.com/2017/04/01/breaki...Rvh3KZKmrhI.99

Miami Dolphins owner forced to sell his team due to being against the Raiders moving to Las Vegas

[em2nought]

Dear Europe, there are no true Americans that trust the mainstream media anymore. We would more likely believe what we read in Pravda if you could still read it. Don't judge support for Trump based on our mainstream media. lol

Originally Posted by em2nought

Don't judge support for Trump based on our mainstream media. lol

Can't and won't speak for others - Europeans ot not - but who says people are doing so?
Personally, I judge people based on what they:
A) Want
B) say and
C) do

If you know a better, more secure, more accurate and reliant way, I'm all ears.
Maybe reading trustworthy sources like Breitbart?

PS: What's a "true American"?

[ikalugin]

How do you determine what a person wants?