AI

granite00 · 06-10-15, 08:10 PM

I'm new to SH4 and am playing at 100% realism. I've read threads about increased AI capabilities and how to combat them. For those who've played both, is the RFB 2.0 AI as capable as the TMO 2.5 AI?

I'm currently playing:
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502
1.5_OTC for 5 to 4 Aspect Ratio RSRDCv502

CCIP · 06-10-15, 09:05 PM

Technically, the AI is the exact same in both - it follows the same detection and attack patterns. The difference is that in TMO, the AI's sensors and weapons are beefed up a bit. It will hear/see you from further away, and will drop more weapons on you and for longer. But other than that, as far as the AI's actual behaviour is concerned, it is not much different. Rather, your boat in TMO is easier for the AI to find.

granite00 · 06-10-15, 09:51 PM

Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. In TMO, escorts have located me 3000 yards off their track doing 1 kt at PD in the dark. I've been having difficulty figuring out how to remain undetected.

fireftr18 · 06-10-15, 10:34 PM

Welcome aboard Granite!

I'll put you in charge of ballast. You can join us in the bilge.

Stock game AI is random, you don't know how good the AI will be until you meet them. TMO sets all AI to "elite" level. They will detect your boat like you said they did you. I don't know how RFB sets the AI. RSRDC sets the AI to generally historical levels, with some random changes.

merc4ulfate · 06-12-15, 08:21 PM

I put my boat with as small as possible sound track. If I have gain position in front of the convoy I turn my boat to 180 of the convoy track. This way I am bow on to the lead escort. If it is a large convoy I go as deep as I can get, all quiet and turn the engines off. I listen for the lead escort to run over top of me and as soon as it does I rise to PD in the middle of the convoy.

I know I'll never rise fast enough to get the lead ships but the ones in the middle and back side of the convoy will do. I like to run RSRD along with TMO and I have noticed the tankers are usually in the rear of the convoy and this give me clear shots on them and a quick 20 or 30 thousand tons for my patience.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics 2.6_TMO_RSRDC
TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC
FJB_Navigation_Maps
FJB Color Navigation Map
Gyoraitei
11 New Ships + Yamato AA Fix by Miner1436
Ship pack 1
SMALLER SEA PLANTS SMALL
SMALLER SEABED ROCKS
#5 Depthcharge Sound
#2 Other Clouds
Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton for v1.4 and v1.5
Aircraft_reflections
Hull_Numbers
TMO Smoke Mod
Classe_Balao_CamoTri

granite00 · 06-13-15, 07:38 PM

Thank you all for your helpful insights.

Armistead · 06-14-15, 01:35 PM

The AI is based off numerous factors. Mods change values such as depth, cone, etc., of sonar or other equipment. Mods like TMO generally adjust equipment values. Then you have values that control the AI works that increase or decrease how the crews, environment and equipment sense you. Values are numerous, your speed, his speed, profile of sub, thermal layer, silent running, weather, visuals, etc. Then each enemy ship has a crew rating from poor to elite. Crew ratings are like multipliers for the other values, an elite crew basically gets a bonus added to numerous sensors. The env also comes into play based on the mod with it's numerous light values.

When you attack your goal is to stack as many values in your favor. If the values are highly in the enemies favor, you may want to track, even for days.
Simple, you don't want to attack a group with several escorts in dead calm seas in shallow water. If you can attack in rougher weather with waves and use silent running, they basically are deaf, even in TMO. Always keep a narrow profile to the nearest escort. You beat a mod like TMO with tactics. If you run RSRD with TMO, if basically only tones down the crew ratings, doesn't change sensors, except some equipment.

Learn tactics, once you do , even TMO will become simple and you can basically sink at will as long as you don't make dumb mistakes.

granite00 · 06-14-15, 03:06 PM

Very good advice. I'm working on my tactical skills.

merc4ulfate · 06-15-15, 06:32 PM

I have never made a dumb mistake in Truk Lagoon. It really was a brilliant mistake ...

06-10-15, 08:10 PM	#1
granite00 Torpedoman Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 113 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	AI I'm new to SH4 and am playing at 100% realism. I've read threads about increased AI capabilities and how to combat them. For those who've played both, is the RFB 2.0 AI as capable as the TMO 2.5 AI? I'm currently playing: 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 1_TMO_25_small_patch RSRDC_TMO_V502 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 1.5_Optical Targeting Correction 031312 for RSRDCv502 1.5_OTC for 5 to 4 Aspect Ratio RSRDCv502 __________________ granite00

06-10-15, 09:51 PM	#3
granite00 Torpedoman Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 113 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for. In TMO, escorts have located me 3000 yards off their track doing 1 kt at PD in the dark. I've been having difficulty figuring out how to remain undetected. __________________ granite00

06-10-15, 10:34 PM	#4
fireftr18 Ocean Warrior Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Kentucky Posts: 2,526 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	Welcome aboard Granite! I'll put you in charge of ballast. You can join us in the bilge. Stock game AI is random, you don't know how good the AI will be until you meet them. TMO sets all AI to "elite" level. They will detect your boat like you said they did you. I don't know how RFB sets the AI. RSRDC sets the AI to generally historical levels, with some random changes. __________________ Of all the forms of Martial Arts, Karaoke causes the most pain!

06-13-15, 07:38 PM	#6
granite00 Torpedoman Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 113 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Thank you all for your helpful insights. __________________ granite00

06-14-15, 01:35 PM	#7
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,864 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	The AI is based off numerous factors. Mods change values such as depth, cone, etc., of sonar or other equipment. Mods like TMO generally adjust equipment values. Then you have values that control the AI works that increase or decrease how the crews, environment and equipment sense you. Values are numerous, your speed, his speed, profile of sub, thermal layer, silent running, weather, visuals, etc. Then each enemy ship has a crew rating from poor to elite. Crew ratings are like multipliers for the other values, an elite crew basically gets a bonus added to numerous sensors. The env also comes into play based on the mod with it's numerous light values. When you attack your goal is to stack as many values in your favor. If the values are highly in the enemies favor, you may want to track, even for days. Simple, you don't want to attack a group with several escorts in dead calm seas in shallow water. If you can attack in rougher weather with waves and use silent running, they basically are deaf, even in TMO. Always keep a narrow profile to the nearest escort. You beat a mod like TMO with tactics. If you run RSRD with TMO, if basically only tones down the crew ratings, doesn't change sensors, except some equipment. Learn tactics, once you do , even TMO will become simple and you can basically sink at will as long as you don't make dumb mistakes. __________________ You see my dog don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it.

06-10-15, 09:05 PM	#2
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	Technically, the AI is the exact same in both - it follows the same detection and attack patterns. The difference is that in TMO, the AI's sensors and weapons are beefed up a bit. It will hear/see you from further away, and will drop more weapons on you and for longer. But other than that, as far as the AI's actual behaviour is concerned, it is not much different. Rather, your boat in TMO is easier for the AI to find. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

06-12-15, 08:21 PM	#5
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I put my boat with as small as possible sound track. If I have gain position in front of the convoy I turn my boat to 180 of the convoy track. This way I am bow on to the lead escort. If it is a large convoy I go as deep as I can get, all quiet and turn the engines off. I listen for the lead escort to run over top of me and as soon as it does I rise to PD in the middle of the convoy. I know I'll never rise fast enough to get the lead ships but the ones in the middle and back side of the convoy will do. I like to run RSRD along with TMO and I have noticed the tankers are usually in the rear of the convoy and this give me clear shots on them and a quick 20 or 30 thousand tons for my patience. Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157 1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5 1_TMO_25_small_patch RSRDC_TMO_V502 RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1 Improved Ship Physics 2.6_TMO_RSRDC TMO_Visuals_for_RSRDC FJB_Navigation_Maps FJB Color Navigation Map Gyoraitei 11 New Ships + Yamato AA Fix by Miner1436 Ship pack 1 SMALLER SEA PLANTS SMALL SMALLER SEABED ROCKS #5 Depthcharge Sound #2 Other Clouds Webster's Eliminate Floating Plankton for v1.4 and v1.5 Aircraft_reflections Hull_Numbers TMO Smoke Mod Classe_Balao_CamoTri __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍

06-14-15, 03:06 PM	#8
granite00 Torpedoman Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 113 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Very good advice. I'm working on my tactical skills. __________________ granite00

06-15-15, 06:32 PM	#9
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I have never made a dumb mistake in Truk Lagoon. It really was a brilliant mistake ... __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍