US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Catfish]

You did not read what i wrote, or you did not get the meaning.
For me his body language is so revealing and unsympathetic that I plain cannot understand how some people do not (want to) see that. It is not about republicans, or left or right, or about Europe.

We will see if his decisions are good for the USA in the long run. Problem for us in Europe is of course that worldwide trade depends in part on decisions of that man, with all what comes later. While i understand that a hard stance is being needed against e.g. China, i cannot understand the throwing overboard of social, technical and scientific achievements, of international treaties, trade and bonds that needed decades to develop. I also think he is dividing the US public. Just because something is bad for others, does not automatically mean it is good for the US.
For me it looks as if mankind is drifting back to the middle ages.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You did not read what i wrote, or you did not get the meaning.
For me his body language is so revealing and unsympathetic that I plain cannot understand how some people do not (want to) see that. It is not about republicans, or left or right, or about Europe.

well no, it is actually quite easy to understand and you would understand if you were not so pre-programmed by your biased Euro group-think.

It is the same reason so many voters liked Reagan, even though he was the same type of right-wing conservative.

Reagan was a S.O.B., but he was America's S.O.B. it's a tough world out there and you don't need a mealy-mouth, weak-kneed, politically-correct, Euro-loving, poll-reading politician who won't make any decisions that might offend some obscure interest group.

You need someone who is not afraid to make the tough decisions and that is Trump.

[ikalugin]

I do not know if the Russians planned this far and expected this long- termed consequences when they started to invest into Trump. But it certainly is a great strategic benefit they enjoy from this, with even more geostrategic benefits resulting from it.

Consider this - thinking that all the problems in the US are caused by Russia is detrimental to the USA, as it distracts the decisionmakers from fixing those problems.


So in the way anti-Russian paranoia can be interpreted as... being pro-Russian.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Catfish

You did not read what i wrote, or you did not get the meaning.
For me his body language is so revealing and unsympathetic that I plain cannot understand how some people do not (want to) see that. It is not about republicans, or left or right, or about Europe.

We will see if his decisions are good for the USA in the long run. Problem for us in Europe is of course that worldwide trade depends in part on decisions of that man, with all what comes later. While i understand that a hard stance is being needed against e.g. China, i cannot understand the throwing overboard of social, technical and scientific achievements, of international treaties, trade and bonds that needed decades to develop. I also think he is dividing the US public. Just because something is bad for others, does not automatically mean it is good for the US.
For me it looks as if mankind is drifting back to the middle ages.

The division was always there for decades. Trump did not start it. It smoldered for a very long time. Many stayed quiet. 8 years under Obama it caught a spark and small flame. Obama was anything but a unifier. Until, there was one guy who started talking their language. I predicted a Trump win from day one. I got the Subsim t-shirt and coffee mug to prove it.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Reagan was a S.O.B., but he was America's S.O.B. it's a tough world out there and you don't need a mealy-mouth, weak-kneed, politically-correct, Euro-loving, poll-reading politician who won't make any decisions that might offend some obscure interest group.

You need someone who is not afraid to make the tough decisions and that is Trump.

I concur. The tin can has been kicked down the road for far to long.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

Au contraire. Speaking as someone who did not vote for Donald Trump 2 years ago, now that I see he means what he says and does support the conservative agenda, I sure will vote for him next time. And I work with and know quite a few other guys that say the same thing. There are a lot of votes he did not get in his first election that he is earned by taking on the left and the dishonest media and not buckling under.

Originally Posted by August

Add me to that list. Last time I voted for Johnson, mainly because he had a slightly better shot at beating Clinton in this state than Trump did but this time i'm gonna waste my vote on Trump (Dems will take the state regardless). First president in my lifetime that actually tries to keep his campaign promises.

Originally Posted by nikimcbee

Ditto.


Who do you think will be the pre-selected dem candidate?

I don't understand ... You guys are talking the year 2020 when this is the year 2018.

You must mean President Trump's party

All things in the government go on hold for two (2) years if the GOP loses

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Reagan was a S.O.B., but he was America's S.O.B. it's a tough world out there and you don't need a mealy-mouth, weak-kneed, politically-correct, Euro-loving, poll-reading politician who won't make any decisions that might offend some obscure interest group.

You need someone who is not afraid to make the tough decisions and that is Trump.

I think I love you




This is in no way an endorsement for those gun grabbers at Levi's

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Catfish

OT since someone mentioned the Trump derangement syndrome.

Yes, i 'suffer' from it, 100 percent.

Yea both you and Skybird have got it bad. Not good for your health. Relax. Have a drink.

Anyway here is a perfect snapshot of the diversity in American political thought. These were the first two articles that appeared on the RCP website this morning. One "Vote for Democrats to end Trump assaults on truth, health care and families" is by the current Chair of the Democratic National Committee, Tom Perez.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...mn/1836205002/

The other is by by Rep.Paul Ryan who is the speaker of the house. It's titled "Vote Republican to Keep America Prosperous".

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...ica-prosperous

You would swear that these two men are talking about two different countries. Maybe they are.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Sometimes i think i'm an alien when i read those pro-Trump comments

I just heard in the radio that the people in the rust belt are "a bit" disappointed with Trump, because he obviously did not mean the middle class and workers, when he promised all those benefits out of the blue. In the rust belt there are less jobs now, a rise of ~4 percent for those fewer who kept their jobs and steel is becoming so expensive that the economy does not really benefit.

True is Trump reduced taxes for big business, while taking the money for that from health care, firing workers, unemployment insurance and reducing job programs initiated by his predecessors. Did i mention his crashing the EPA with his puppet Pruitt, the reducing of former protected nature parks to allow companies to mine and driill in those areas.
While the whole world sans China and Russia has accepted to do something pro environment, Trump drops all of it and makes the USA step back fifty years.

That he rallies against women, stokes fear of foreigners and incites violence against anyone who has left a bit of common sense is his usual bull and it seems people there begin to see through that diversion. If he is a voice of something, it's that of big business.


OT since someone mentioned the Trump derangement syndrome.

Yes, i 'suffer' from it, 100 percent. And you know why?
The sheer sight of this man makes me vomit. He appeals to the lowest instincts. His body language, his hate speeches, his "trying-to-look-clever"-look, his grinning.. Yes. I despise him, completely. This "man" is a spoiled brat, a poser, dumb and incompetent. A divider and a liar.

And this has nothing to do with democrats or republicans, or with a step left or a step right, this is about stepping backward in all fields, a failure, from science, to empathy, to unification of US people, to diplomacy, to enlightenment, to sympathy, to economics. Incompetence on steroids.

So there you have it.
I know this will not change anything, i'm not that delusional

Now we both know I was not a Trump supporter, right�� Let's get that in writing before you address anything else I write.

A divider and a liar. You just described every politician in America. And probably the world. Was there ever a bigger divider than Obama? Before Obama, racial relations in the public eye were pretty good. Now look at things.

In the normal world, out of the public eye, racial relations are still fine where I live. The stuff you see in the big depressed metropolitan cities is a whole different thing.


But I have to say The Trumper is like a crazy brother in law who I never took seriously, but I am beginning to respect. He just does not fold up. He has gotten some serious business done. The partisan media have been bashing him from day 1 but he owns them. He doesn't care what you think of him. If he believes the US is getting the stinky end of the stick with China or Euro trade, he's gonna beat you on the head with it. Of course, Europe and China don't like it, no one likes it when the patsy fights back. As of 2014, NATO’s collective agreement instructed member countries to spend 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense by 2024. According to NATO’s most recent report detailing members’ defense expenditures, only five countries currently satisfy that threshold: the United States, Greece, the United Kingdom, Estonia and Latvia. Come on Germany, pay your share.

What puzzles me most, why do non-Americans get so frantic when we do something internally like his crashing the EPA with his puppet Pruitt, the reducing of former protected nature parks to allow companies to mine and driill in those areas. Dang man, why is that keeping you awake at night? Those are our nature parks. Let's assume the drilling will be done with some responsibility. You make it sound like we're going to turn a dragon loose on the landscape. We have plants and factories all over, that's our economy. We don't have a nice neighbor like Russia next door to buy gas from.

And now I come to Madam Clinton:

Amy Chozick’s book Chasing Hillary: Ten Years, Two Presidential Campaigns, and One Intact Glass Ceiling. Chozick makes it clear that she was rooting for Clinton. But she also thinks Clinton hates her. Chozick shouldn’t take things so personally: Clinton hates everyone. You can’t relate to people you despise. Her inability to master the basics of being a politician inspired one of the great underreported witticisms of the 2016 campaign, when Donald Trump was asked about his comparatively loose debate preparations. “I don’t need to rehearse being human,” he said.

As a college sophomore, Clinton once described herself as a “misanthrope.” Her inability to hide that made her an amazingly poor candidate, one who would have had difficulty capturing a seat on any city council on her own. Dealing with the populace standing between her and power was never anything but a chore.

Chozick and the other reporters covering Clinton in 2015–16 were pulling for her. You could hear it in the questions they asked. Chozick makes it obvious in her new book. Yet Clinton was convinced this gaggle of liberal women was somehow out to take her down, and she barricaded herself off from them. She was a glum loner, not a happy warrior.

Yeesh! This was the fakest, most power hungry candidate in the election. Be glad she's not the first woman President, let that honor go to someone we could respect.

Trump was not my choice but 2 years later, I'm not regretting the election result one bit. Still a little embarrassed, but I'll live.

[Buddahaid]

"Amy Chozick’s book Chasing Hillary: Ten Years, Two Presidential Campaigns, and One Intact Glass Ceiling. Chozick makes it clear that she was rooting for Clinton. But she also thinks Clinton hates her. Chozick shouldn’t take things so personally: Clinton hates everyone. YOU CAN’T RELATE TO PEOPLE YOU DESPISE."

That is my problem with Trump. I despised him before his political career, and I still despise him even though I see a glimmer of hope. Naive, I'm sure.

[Schroeder]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

As of 2014, NATO’s collective agreement instructed member countries to spend 2 percent of their gross domestic product on defense by 2024. According to NATO’s most recent report detailing members’ defense expenditures, only five countries currently satisfy that threshold: the United States, Greece, the United Kingdom, Estonia and Latvia. Come on Germany, pay your share.

On this I fully agree but there are many people here who would like to see the Bundeswehr being disbanded altogether (because weapons are evil and we should learn from our history and NATO is the aggressor against Russia and stuff....) so it's hard for any government to pour more money into the armed forces. However that can't be an excuse for the miserable state our military is in and I think that really needs to change.

What puzzles me most, why do non-Americans get so frantic when we do something internally like his crashing the EPA with his puppet Pruitt, the reducing of former protected nature parks to allow companies to mine and driill in those areas. Dang man, why is that keeping you awake at night?

Because you are influencing others, whether you like it or not. Other countries will see this and say "hey, if the Americans do it let's do it too" (Brazil anyone?).
We only have one planet and one environment. Arbitrary man made borders don't mean a thing for it. Most of the developed world has finally come to their senses and realized that we can't continue like this (there has been a recent WWF study that concluded that we've lost 60% of vertebrate animals between 1970 and 2014 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46028862 and while I take it with a grain of salt there is no denying that mankind is responsible of the extinction of craploads of life on this planet). Decisions like Trump's hurt the overall attempt of saving what we still have and that is saddening and will probably hurt us all in the long run.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

Because you are influencing others, whether you like it or not. Other countries will see this and say "hey, if the Americans do it let's do it too" (Brazil anyone?).
We only have one planet and one environment. Arbitrary man made borders don't mean a thing for it. Most of the developed world has finally come to their senses and realized that we can't continue like this (there has been a recent WWF study that concluded that we've lost 60% of vertebrate animals between 1970 and 2014 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46028862 and while I take it with a grain of salt there is no denying that mankind is responsible of the extinction of craploads of life on this planet). Decisions like Trump's hurt the overall attempt of saving what we still have and that is saddening and will probably hurt us all in the long run.

Ok, I see where you're coming from.

I have not examined all the regulatory changes in detail, I doubt I ever will. Like Catfish says, the people have the EPA to take care of the environment on their behalf, and yes, if the EPA decides not to do their job at all, we have a problem. I think we all agree there. My point, there is some room to change the extent the EPA and other agencies go in doing their job. I think in many cases the EPA goes too far. Like a nanny who wraps the child in bubble wrap. I guess we'll find out. Environmental hawks are crying that industry is going to lay waste to everything. Industry advocates scream that Obama era regulations went too far, past the point of protecting anything and into the zone of nuttiness. I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle, it depends on what you want to believe.

I still say the only way out of this is to reduce the population and get people to stop living a modern life. As long as people want roads, cars, computers, TV programs, airliners, sewer pumps, more than 3 changes of clothing, buses, soccer matches -- all the things of modern life that need energy and materials to create, we will have these problems. We've built this massive train of civilization and progress, it's going to take a lot more than hope and little tweaks to our lifestyle to slow it down.

[August]

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

I don't understand ... You guys are talking the year 2020 when this is the year 2018.

You must mean President Trump's party

All things in the government go on hold for two (2) years if the GOP loses

If that happens i'm ok with it. Trump got us an Originalist leaning Supreme Court and that's good enough for me. If the Repubs hold the Senate he'll still likely be able to replace Ginsburg and maybe Breyer too and that'll be even better.

[Dowly]

@Neal


Here's a list of some of the EPA regulations Trump admin has rolled back:
https://www.environmentalintegrity.o...ory-rollbacks/

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by August

If that happens i'm ok with it.

I definitely won't be "ok" with it, although I suspect that most Republican elected officials are secretly rooting for that very thing. All the good accomplished in just two years by Trump must be undone, or those low energy Republicans look like they've been screwing us for all these years. They'll try to blame it on the Democrats, but we'll know better.