US Army gives away the Beret

Feuer Frei! · 06-14-11, 07:06 AM

The US Army is abandoning the beret, after a failed 10-year experiment. The black beret, which proved deeply unpopular with American soldiers, will be replaced by a patrol cap for everyday wear, US Army spokesman Colonel Tom Collins said Monday.
The move came after outgoing Army chief of staff, General Martin Dempsey, asked the army's sergeant major "to go out and talk to soldiers across the force and see what was on their minds," Collins told AFP.
"One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said.
The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said.
"It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said.
One soldier put it more bluntly.
"I hate wearing a wet sock on my head," Chief Warrant Officer Mark Vino, at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, told the Army Times. "Plus it makes head/skin break out."
Before 2001, the black beret was associated with the elite Rangers special operations forces. Many Rangers resented the idea that the hat they had earned the right to wear had been assigned to the entire force.
The uniform change applies to 1.32 million soldiers -- including 566,473 active duty troops -- and goes into effect immediately. The new headwear comes with a lower price: a beret costs $11.90 while a patrol cap is only $6.50.
The decision does not affect units that have long worn berets as a mark of distinction, including the Rangers' black beret, Army special forces' green beret and Airborne's maroon version.
As part of the change, soldiers will have the option of having their name tags, rank and badges sewn on to their uniforms.
There also will be a new look for Army soldiers working at the Defense Department's headquarters at the Pentagon, with camouflage to be replaced with the more business-like dress uniform, Collins said.
"For soldiers serving in the Pentagon, we will transition to the dress uniform," starting in July, he said.
In the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, all the armed services started wearing combat uniforms in the Pentagon, to underscore the country's war-footing.
But Defense Secretary Robert Gates last year had his staff drop the combat uniforms, and some other offices in the Pentagon have returned to the dress uniform.
"Our perspective is that this is the corporate part of the Army," said Sergeant Major of the Army, Raymond Chandler, quoted on the US Army's website.

SOURCE

Ducimus · 06-14-11, 11:02 AM

Wow, this smacks of Air Force style shennanigans. I always thought it was stupid the Army went to the black beret. Makes them look like an army of some 2nd or 3rd world nation in my opinion.

Now I have never worn a beret, but this....

Quote:

"One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said.
The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said.
"It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said. One soldier put it more bluntly. "I hate wearing a wet sock on my head,"

That says it all right there. It's freaking stupid. And if you think back.... even before the 2001 uniform change, back when only Rangers, airborne, and SF had berets they earned, even they didn't wear them in the field. Because apparently It's a dress item, not a field/utility item. So some Army general decides to make it a field item? Wow... that IS stupid. That is so stupid, it is USAF stupid!

Quote:

Before 2001, the black beret was associated with the elite Rangers special operations forces. Many Rangers resented the idea that the hat they had earned the right to wear had been assigned to the entire force.

I did earn the privledge to wear a certain hat, so i can understand this. I've always felt a bit of sympathy (or is that empathy) to this. If the hat i had earned privledge to wear was given out to the entire branch, id be royally pissed off.

Platapus · 06-14-11, 07:54 PM

God, I remember the uniform debacle in the Air Force. He-who-shall-not-be-named and his stupid bus driver/airline pilot service dress.

I think that was the closest I ever experienced of a wide spread mutiny. So many troops, some at very high levels, simply refused to buy the new uniform and when hwsnbn rotated out of the Chief of Staff position, you could almost see the trash cans bulging.

It was a dark time. It is fortunate that the youngerlings in the AF were spared.

Torplexed · 06-14-11, 08:05 PM

I'm just glad they dumped that annoying "Army of One" advertising campaign.

FIREWALL · 06-14-11, 09:46 PM

Didn't the Navy have this problem too.

TLAM Strike · 06-14-11, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIREWALL

Didn't the Navy have this problem too.

What that their uniforms made sailors look like convicts on work release?

FIREWALL · 06-14-11, 10:47 PM

Let the military stay out of the uniform business.

Let Sachs 5th. ave. take care of it.

Stealhead · 06-15-11, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

God, I remember the uniform debacle in the Air Force. He-who-shall-not-be-named and his stupid bus driver/airline pilot service dress.

I think that was the closest I ever experienced of a wide spread mutiny. So many troops, some at very high levels, simply refused to buy the new uniform and when hwsnbn rotated out of the Chief of Staff position, you could almost see the trash cans bulging.

It was a dark time. It is fortunate that the youngerlings in the AF were spared.

What AF uniform debacle? Are you referring to when they did that stupid name tape thing back in 93' or so and they changed back to the regualr name tapes?(I was on the tail end of that) or you referring to the them getting rid of the tan uniforms back in the day(before my time) or the change over to BDUs from the old "pickle" suits(again before my time) or the that ugly pattern that looks like a love child between Tiger Stripe and a random Russian pattern that they currently use that many hate?(after my time)

P.S. active and former Rangers all demanded that they not use the color black but no one listened I can agree with the beret thing in the US military it is elite only except for USAF SPs which is stupid the Pararescue are elite forces in the USAF and they have a maroon beret so why do all the cops a silly dark blue one?

I think the Army did the Beret thing to lure people in I once saw a National Guard Private in his BDUs wearing the regular Army beret inside a store I walked over to him and said "So they don't have that regulation about taking your cover off when inside anymore?" He looked really embarrassed I guess he learned that day that you never know who is going to see you walking around in uniform improperly he was probably looking to get some chicks and Im sure he'd have claimed to be a Ranger as well most civies do not know that a Ranger also has the ranger tab.

Ducimus · 06-15-11, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

What AF uniform debacle? Are you referring to when they did that stupid name tape thing back in 93' or so and they changed back to the regualr name tapes?(

Yeah that. He who's name we should not utter is McPeak. I enlisted in 92, so i can bear witness to the entire debacle, in detail.

I wont get into the airliner uniform.. .err i mean service dress, but i'll illustrate the BDU debacle in a little better detail.

In the beginning, there was standard BDU's with name tapes, and assorted boy scout like badges plastered everywhere. This i shall call uniform Iteration number 1:

Then someone got the bright idea that trimming all that down to just a crew patch, would save on uniform costs. So a velco square was sewn directly above the left breast pocket upon which to place your crew patch. This i shall call uniform iteration number 2: (EDIT: FYI, swapping crew patch's out with a buddy was great fun in tech school)

Then the officers went unto the powers that be and said, "This sucks! We are not getting saluted because nobody can tell our rank! At approximately the same time, some office jockeys that fly a desk whined that they couldn't put their pens into the pen pocket without it crimping on the crew patch. Enter Uniform iteration number 3. Rank is now again, sewn on the sleeves, and the crew patch is placed one half inch above the left breast pocket.

Now picture if you will, a time period where because nothing has offically been phased out yet, or rather the phase out date hasn't happened yet, we now have THREE different versions of the *COUGH* ... "uniform".

Old style BDU's with tapes
Crew patch by itself
Crew patch 1/2 inch above pocket with rank.

By this time, the "uniform savings" originally envisioned had became ahhh... moot?

Some time later, after McPeak left his position, the next AF chief of staff came in, said, "enough of this happy horses**t" and we all went back to the orignal BDU's with name tapes. The airliner service uniform stayed, and we were all left wondering, "WTF was that all about anyway?!"

edit:
ALl that said, some good did come out of the uniform changes. The changes to senior NCO chevron's i thought was the best idea of the whole time period. (IE instead of a chief master sgt having 2 rooftops and 6 rockers, he now has 3 rooftops and 5 rockers.)

August · 06-15-11, 02:54 PM

It's almost like the Army, but to some extent the rest of the services as well, goes out of it's way to create the dorkiest looking uniforms possible.

I mean in WW2 we had this:

And we have since changed it to this:

It's just sad...

TLAM Strike · 06-15-11, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Now picture if you will, a time period where because nothing has offically been phased out yet, or rather the phase out date hasn't happened yet, we now have THREE different versions of the *COUGH* ... "uniform".

In other words *THIS* happened in real life?

Riker:You guys got the memo about the new uniforms right?
Picard: Screw that, I wear what I want Number One!

Platapus · 06-16-11, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

It's almost like the Army, but to some extent the rest of the services as well, goes out of it's way to create the dorkiest looking uniforms possible.

The Army does like to put stuff on the uniform.

August · 06-16-11, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

The Army does like to put stuff on the uniform.

It's not so much the stuff on the uniform (although I do think they should limit ribbons to three rows) but the design of the uniform itself. It's gone from a very martial and utilitarian design that integrated with the combat uniform, to a civilian JC Penny business man look to now what amounts to a door mans outfit. What's next, a clown suit?

If the dark cloud that is the end of DADT has a silver lining it is that maybe, just maybe, the troops will finally get a really sharp looking dress uniform. A little "Queer Eye for the Army Guy" as it were.

In that light it is also interesting to note that both the Navy and the Marine Corps have always had good looking dress uniform.

TLAM Strike · 06-16-11, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

(although I do think they should limit ribbons to three rows)

Yea its getting out of control:

Soon our troops will be looking like this:

06-16-11, 07:05 PM

I earned my AirBorne Mushroom the honest way.
I also trained with SF and Rangers and did the goofy Guy thing as they trained.
I was APPALLED when the whole Army went to the Black MushRoom!
I felt, and still feel,
it was a slap in the face to many true Heros that paid a price none of the
regular Army Units could ever stand up to.
I only hope that the change requires that all Service Persons that DID NOT earn a Ranger Patch can NOT wear a Black Beret ever again!

Give respect where respect is due!

06-14-11, 07:06 AM	#1
Feuer Frei! Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Valhalla Posts: 5,295 Downloads: 141 Uploads: 17	US Army gives away the Beret The US Army is abandoning the beret, after a failed 10-year experiment. The black beret, which proved deeply unpopular with American soldiers, will be replaced by a patrol cap for everyday wear, US Army spokesman Colonel Tom Collins said Monday. The move came after outgoing Army chief of staff, General Martin Dempsey, asked the army's sergeant major "to go out and talk to soldiers across the force and see what was on their minds," Collins told AFP. "One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said. The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said. "It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said. One soldier put it more bluntly. "I hate wearing a wet sock on my head," Chief Warrant Officer Mark Vino, at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, told the Army Times. "Plus it makes head/skin break out." Before 2001, the black beret was associated with the elite Rangers special operations forces. Many Rangers resented the idea that the hat they had earned the right to wear had been assigned to the entire force. The uniform change applies to 1.32 million soldiers -- including 566,473 active duty troops -- and goes into effect immediately. The new headwear comes with a lower price: a beret costs $11.90 while a patrol cap is only $6.50. The decision does not affect units that have long worn berets as a mark of distinction, including the Rangers' black beret, Army special forces' green beret and Airborne's maroon version. As part of the change, soldiers will have the option of having their name tags, rank and badges sewn on to their uniforms. There also will be a new look for Army soldiers working at the Defense Department's headquarters at the Pentagon, with camouflage to be replaced with the more business-like dress uniform, Collins said. "For soldiers serving in the Pentagon, we will transition to the dress uniform," starting in July, he said. In the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, all the armed services started wearing combat uniforms in the Pentagon, to underscore the country's war-footing. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates last year had his staff drop the combat uniforms, and some other offices in the Pentagon have returned to the dress uniform. "Our perspective is that this is the corporate part of the Army," said Sergeant Major of the Army, Raymond Chandler, quoted on the US Army's website. SOURCE __________________ "History is the lies that the victors agree on"- Napoleon LINK TO MY SH 3 MODS

06-14-11, 07:54 PM	#3
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 18,957 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	God, I remember the uniform debacle in the Air Force. He-who-shall-not-be-named and his stupid bus driver/airline pilot service dress. I think that was the closest I ever experienced of a wide spread mutiny. So many troops, some at very high levels, simply refused to buy the new uniform and when hwsnbn rotated out of the Chief of Staff position, you could almost see the trash cans bulging. It was a dark time. It is fortunate that the youngerlings in the AF were spared. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

06-14-11, 09:46 PM	#5
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Didn't the Navy have this problem too. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

06-14-11, 10:47 PM	#7
FIREWALL Eternal Patrol Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: CATALINA IS. SO . CAL USA Posts: 10,108 Downloads: 511 Uploads: 0	Let the military stay out of the uniform business. Let Sachs 5th. ave. take care of it. __________________ RIP FIREWALL I Play GWX. Silent Hunter Who ???

06-15-11, 02:54 PM	#10
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 22,674 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It's almost like the Army, but to some extent the rest of the services as well, goes out of it's way to create the dorkiest looking uniforms possible. I mean in WW2 we had this: And we have since changed it to this: It's just sad... __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

06-14-11, 08:05 PM	#4
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	I'm just glad they dumped that annoying "Army of One" advertising campaign.

06-16-11, 07:05 PM	#15
Madox58 Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I earned my AirBorne Mushroom the honest way. I also trained with SF and Rangers and did the goofy Guy thing as they trained. I was APPALLED when the whole Army went to the Black MushRoom! I felt, and still feel, it was a slap in the face to many true Heros that paid a price none of the regular Army Units could ever stand up to. I only hope that the change requires that all Service Persons that DID NOT earn a Ranger Patch can NOT wear a Black Beret ever again! Give respect where respect is due!