Book wanted

Herr-Berbunch · 08-30-11, 10:49 AM

Sorry, not naval.

Can anyone recommend a good book about the Spanish Civil War? Please don't just Google some, I'd like personal recommendations.

Quite a few things I've read in the last couple of years have referenced, or been partially involving with the conflict with the International Brigade and the Condor Legion amongst others. Now I'd like to read a book specifically on the subject with little or no deviation elsewhere.

Musts are: factual, interesting, anecdotal/humerous (where possible). Oh, and in English!

I await your replies, and thanks in advance,

HB

Gerald · 08-30-11, 10:52 AM

I can deliver something tomorrow,

Jimbuna · 08-30-11, 11:51 AM

I've read this one in my local library reference section....mainly first-hand accounts and very informative IMHO.

Here is a link with the opportunity to 'look inside' the book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heroic-Voice...4722670&sr=1-6#_

Of course, if you did decide to purchase the book you could use the SS link to Amazon.co.uk

08-30-11, 12:49 PM

I have read The Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas, for a long time perhaps the most complete English language single volume. I have an older edition written when Franco still rules (he apparently had it banned in Spain although he allowed Prof Thomas access to government archives). It's now in its fourth edition and has been updated with new info several times since it was first published.

Anthony Beevor's The Battle for Spain is on my to buy list, I have a number of his books and am generally pleased with the quality and extent of his research and soundness of his conclusions but have not yet read the book.

Lots of new scholarship out there as the Civil War generation passes away but as you note, much is memoirs or popular subject exclusive.

I'd probably go with the latest edition of Thomas.

Penguin · 08-30-11, 04:16 PM

You may have already read it, but I can recommend one by my favourite author: Homage to Catalonia, by George Orwell.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by deviation, it certainly is subjective, as he fought for the Republicans and it is written from his POV, so this goes more among Jim's book.
Although subjective it sticks to the facts and covers also the ugly experiences he had with the inner-republican fighting. It definitely lead to an overhaul of his political views and led to the writing of Animal Farm.

Oh, and I would definitely check out Randomizer's Beevor recommendation. I haven't read his book about Spain, but if it is like his Stalingrad book it is worth a peek. In this book, Beevor tried to cover both sides, which he managed quite well, so this could be the book if you are looking for a more objective general overview about all sides.

08-30-11, 09:00 PM

Homage to Catalonia is riveting but is (in my opinion) tainted as a narrative with Orwell's deep cynicism and disillusionment with Republican infighting. Although based on a diary he kept in theatre, it was written after the civil war when his contempt for the political Left was almost equal to his hatred of all things fascist. An immensely valuable insight into an Englishman's experience with one of the International Brigades but very narrow in scope and extremely biased. Worth reading as a source but not as the source.

Herr-Berbunch · 08-31-11, 09:36 AM

Thanks guys - all noted and I'll see what my local library has in.

By deviation I meant that I wanted the whole book to be reference to the war, and not visit other places at other times like some autobiography (for instance Dennis Sefton Delmers excellent autobiographical books (Trial Sinister and Black Boomerang) covering when he was a journalist during the war along with living in Germany/France before and Black Propaganda activities during WWII).

Penguin · 08-31-11, 10:01 AM

Oke, me know underständ!

I wasn't sure if you were looking for something objective and thus not wanting to read stuff from biased sources.

@Randomizer:
You can already see Orwell's beginning disillusion in the second part of Wigan's Pier, where he slags off the polical left. He descibes them as naive, pale vegetarians, disattached form the problems of the working man,

seems like not too much has changed... - says the vegetarian, lefty Penguin

.
One little nitpicking: Orwell fought among the POUM together with Spanish fighters, he was supposed to fight in the International Brigades later, but as far as I remember he didn't join them as he fled from Spain at this time.

And damn you, Herr B. - now my interest in the Spanish civil war is fueled again, my purse will curse you!

Herr-Berbunch · 08-31-11, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

And damn you, Herr B. - now my interest in the Spanish civil war is fueled again, my purse will curse you!

Sorry

I've not seen much at all on the subject before, but every little glimpse I get it seems more and more intruiging. I am of course getting slightly ahead of myself here - I've nearly finished Das Boot, and still have a dozen or so books to read before anything else! And I'm not the quickest reader

.

Penguin · 08-31-11, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

Sorry

I've not seen much at all on the subject before, but every little glimpse I get it seems more and more intruiging. I am of course getting slightly ahead of myself here - I've nearly finished Das Boot, and still have a dozen or so books to read before anything else! And I'm not the quickest reader

.

Oh yeah, this is my problem, too. I just moved, so I put all the books I still have to read next to each other. They already fill one 80cm shelf yet, will probably find some more when I finishied unpacking all the boxes. Too few time to read, but too many interests to stop getting new books...

So after reading Das Boot it's time to read it in German

. However I don't know if they ever find the way to the Bahnhof in the German edition....

Herr-Berbunch · 08-31-11, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

So after reading Das Boot it's time to read it in German

. However I don't know if they ever find the way to the Bahnhof in the German edition....

What do you mean?

Even at the height of my German-speaking it wasn't good enough to read a poster, nevermind a book!

Jimbuna · 08-31-11, 11:59 AM

Not sure if it's worth a mention but my late father was aboard the steamship Cydonia when she was bombed in Barcelona Harbour during the Spanish Civil War.

08-31-11, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

Oke, me know underständ!

@Randomizer:
...
One little nitpicking: Orwell fought among the POUM together with Spanish fighters, he was supposed to fight in the International Brigades later, but as far as I remember he didn't join them as he fled from Spain at this time.

You're right of course and I stand corrected, thanks for setting the record straight. Have not read Homage to Catalonia for some time and that's what happens when one relies on a flawed memory.

The hardest thing in researching the war in Spain was getting the alphabet soup of the political factions down correctly!

This thread has brought the Spanish War back into my sights as well so I now have Beevor's book ordered from the local library.

Penguin · 08-31-11, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

What do you mean?

Even at the height of my German-speaking it wasn't good enough to read a poster, nevermind a book!

Just pulling your leg. I would never even try to learn the grammar mess that German is if it would not have been breastfed to me. And I wanted to use the word Bahnhof, thought it is your favourite

Btw, I find the German in the "Das Boot" film very hard to understand, as much is spoken very quickly and/or mumbled, must be a mess for a non-native speaker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomizer

The hardest thing in researching the war in Spain was getting the alphabet soup of the political factions down correctly!

This thread has brought the Spanish War back into my sights as well so I now have Beevor's book ordered from the local library.

oh yes, the fractions are all P-something

had a hard time when talking to a Spanish guy, who spoke little English, about the war , my drunken state certainly didn't help "pouf puum paull",

Looking forward to hear a judgement from you about Beevor's book, I am still in the Winter War atm

Herr-Berbunch · 08-31-11, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penguin

And I wanted to use the word Bahnhof, thought it is your favourite

It is

Der Bahnhof ist die zweite Straße auf der rechten Seite.

08-30-11, 10:49 AM	#1
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Book wanted Sorry, not naval. Can anyone recommend a good book about the Spanish Civil War? Please don't just Google some, I'd like personal recommendations. Quite a few things I've read in the last couple of years have referenced, or been partially involving with the conflict with the International Brigade and the Condor Legion amongst others. Now I'd like to read a book specifically on the subject with little or no deviation elsewhere. Musts are: factual, interesting, anecdotal/humerous (where possible). Oh, and in English! I await your replies, and thanks in advance, HB __________________

08-30-11, 10:52 AM	#2
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,235 Downloads: 548 Uploads: 0	I can deliver something tomorrow, __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

08-30-11, 11:51 AM	#3
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	I've read this one in my local library reference section....mainly first-hand accounts and very informative IMHO. Here is a link with the opportunity to 'look inside' the book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heroic-Voice...4722670&sr=1-6#_ Of course, if you did decide to purchase the book you could use the SS link to Amazon.co.uk __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

08-31-11, 09:36 AM	#7
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys - all noted and I'll see what my local library has in. By deviation I meant that I wanted the whole book to be reference to the war, and not visit other places at other times like some autobiography (for instance Dennis Sefton Delmers excellent autobiographical books (Trial Sinister and Black Boomerang) covering when he was a journalist during the war along with living in Germany/France before and Black Propaganda activities during WWII). __________________

08-31-11, 11:59 AM	#12
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Not sure if it's worth a mention but my late father was aboard the steamship Cydonia when she was bombed in Barcelona Harbour during the Spanish Civil War. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

08-30-11, 12:49 PM	#4
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	I have read The Spanish Civil War by Hugh Thomas, for a long time perhaps the most complete English language single volume. I have an older edition written when Franco still rules (he apparently had it banned in Spain although he allowed Prof Thomas access to government archives). It's now in its fourth edition and has been updated with new info several times since it was first published. Anthony Beevor's The Battle for Spain is on my to buy list, I have a number of his books and am generally pleased with the quality and extent of his research and soundness of his conclusions but have not yet read the book. Lots of new scholarship out there as the Civil War generation passes away but as you note, much is memoirs or popular subject exclusive. I'd probably go with the latest edition of Thomas.

08-30-11, 04:16 PM	#5
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	You may have already read it, but I can recommend one by my favourite author: Homage to Catalonia, by George Orwell. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by deviation, it certainly is subjective, as he fought for the Republicans and it is written from his POV, so this goes more among Jim's book. Although subjective it sticks to the facts and covers also the ugly experiences he had with the inner-republican fighting. It definitely lead to an overhaul of his political views and led to the writing of Animal Farm. Oh, and I would definitely check out Randomizer's Beevor recommendation. I haven't read his book about Spain, but if it is like his Stalingrad book it is worth a peek. In this book, Beevor tried to cover both sides, which he managed quite well, so this could be the book if you are looking for a more objective general overview about all sides.

08-30-11, 09:00 PM	#6
Randomizer Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Homage to Catalonia is riveting but is (in my opinion) tainted as a narrative with Orwell's deep cynicism and disillusionment with Republican infighting. Although based on a diary he kept in theatre, it was written after the civil war when his contempt for the political Left was almost equal to his hatred of all things fascist. An immensely valuable insight into an Englishman's experience with one of the International Brigades but very narrow in scope and extremely biased. Worth reading as a source but not as the source.

08-31-11, 10:01 AM	#8
Penguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Rheinische Republik Posts: 3,322 Downloads: 92 Uploads: 0	Oke, me know underständ! I wasn't sure if you were looking for something objective and thus not wanting to read stuff from biased sources. @Randomizer: You can already see Orwell's beginning disillusion in the second part of Wigan's Pier, where he slags off the polical left. He descibes them as naive, pale vegetarians, disattached form the problems of the working man, seems like not too much has changed... - says the vegetarian, lefty Penguin . One little nitpicking: Orwell fought among the POUM together with Spanish fighters, he was supposed to fight in the International Brigades later, but as far as I remember he didn't join them as he fled from Spain at this time. And damn you, Herr B. - now my interest in the Spanish civil war is fueled again, my purse will curse you!