GER politics thread - Page 55

STEED · 09-02-19, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Refusing to vote does not cover you from consequences of other people voting.

True, but I do get the satisfaction not wasting my time voting for a load of twits.

Jimbuna · 09-02-19, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Refusing to vote does not cover you from consequences of other people voting.

True that

ikalugin · 09-02-19, 10:38 AM

As such you may want to consider voting, if only to reduce harm.

From my perspective Russia is a good example here. Some opposition leaders agitated for a boycott, it did not happen to the extend that it would undermine the elections, but their supporters did not vote.

And because they did not vote the percentages slanted in favor of Putin, giving him a better mandate.

skidman · 09-02-19, 05:26 PM

Wait a minute, I get it: The philosopher's stone was found by a small but oh so furious elite group on a chat forum originally devoted to marine simulation video games and it had written "voting is stupid" and "politicians are scum" on it.

Thus this elite group had stopped voting long ago. But that didn't stop them from spraying poison on the democratic process and the outcomes of the process they had decided not to take part in.

They simply neglected that politics is the art of the possible and reasonable compromises, and sometimes it is a "one step forward, two steps back" business. And between the lines of hate and anger in their multitudinous posts it became clear they wanted to play it "my way or the highway".

When they found out that there were far too many heretics to burn them all, they became cynical. When they realized they had become prisoners of their own device they felt embittered. Their world had turned into a dark, cold and LONESOME place.

homo sum humani a me nihil alienum puto

Skybird · 09-02-19, 06:09 PM

Sigh. The above ^perfectly illustrates why I am against general voting rights.

And sicne I explkained it in moire dtail repatrely in the past 2, 3 years, i cut it hsort this time. If you want to go deeper into the amyn highly valid arugments why most voters owe it to the common good to NOT vote and why the single voter is irrelevcant and decides no9 election by himself, you will need to investigate a bit deeper and spend some time and read one or two or three books, I once again recommend Jason Brennan, and when one searches the name in this forum, one can find some links to him I have set up in the past, and some texts by him. I cut it short for myself, sicne I do not want to dance the same dance all the time, and post this link as a starter only. I may disagree with the alternatives that Brennan (or Hoppe, for that reason) present, but his (their) diagnosis of the rotten state democracy is in (and always inevitably must lead to by its core essence and nature) , is 100% on target, there is nothing I object to.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...out-to-be.html

Again, Brennan, like Hoppe, is a brilliant (and entertaining) diagnostician. His prescribed antidots are open for discussion, however. and he admits that himself. Just not stikcing tot he old failed ways, but triyng new ones on small scale to see whether they work, and if so,then widening them, that is his idea.

You will not change a corrupt regime by playing the game by its corrupted rules and believing its corrupted propaganda. The only way is to force it from outside its rules to leave and run away, by boycotting its claim for authority, and disobeying the fat cats' demands by which they protect their own careers and interests. If you do not understands that,k that is another arument in itsel fthen why you shouzd iot be allowed to vote. because you add active harm to the community and the common good. And reason anyway.

Politics today do not work for the common good, they workkr for the actor's own good. Party interest and political actors' interest goes before communal and national interest. You can see it everywhere. In Germany. In Britain. In the US. In France. In the EU. In china. In Russia. And voters fall for it.

Every. Single. Time.

They disqualify themselves for being able to vote. Hobbits, Brennan calls them.

Its not about "escaping the majority". That too, yes, but that ius not the core when refusing to vcote. Itd about deligitimizing a system itself. Once turnout is down to below 5% or less, no "winner" can claim anymore to represent anmd stand for anythign or anyone in society. Thats why I always post just voting results that are standardised against the voting turnout - to show what a small fraction of society the big winners indeed are only standing for. Their demand to swing the clubs of power, is illegitimate from all beginning on. They are ursurpers. They want to play in the casino of powerpoltics for their own win, but they use the others' money to pay the bets. The self-understanding behind this reminds of the era of absolutism and serfdom.

ikalugin · 09-03-19, 03:51 AM

Boycot does not cover you from the results of other people voting and legislation being passed, unless you can pull out a very low turn out and this is not realistic.

As such this is you hiding your head in the ground and pretending that everything is ok by boycot.

And if the voting rights are given out to select people, you are not going to get them period, unless you join the class of the fat cats that you seem to despise so much.

STEED · 09-03-19, 04:11 AM

I can not speak for the average German voter but here in the UK we are stuck with a load of poo bags who don't give a poo about us and why?

The voters have forgotten they work for us which has stopped. There will be no change for the better until the voters wake up and they will never wake up so the end result it will get worst.

Jimbuna · 09-03-19, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikalugin

And if the voting rights are given out to select people, you are not going to get them period, unless you join the class of the fat cats that you seem to despise so much.

Is that aimed at STEED?

STEED · 09-03-19, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Is that aimed at STEED?

Not me sexy, read Skys post.

ikalugin · 09-03-19, 05:27 AM

Yes, but then skybird has many unrealistic ideas so the boycot one does not surprise me.

Skybird · 09-03-19, 06:47 AM

I am not stupid, ikalugin, I know that a turnout of 2% is unrealistic. But it is about refusing to legitim ise a gang of paraistes and mobsters. I do not put my hea din the ground - but you do. You say the alternativ eis playing by the rule sof theirs. You ignore that that way nothign chnages, and nothing will chnage,a nd that these rulers were deigned to make sure right this: that nothign chnages. Partoiresd come and go, names cvome and go. The system, the rules stay.

I feel abused and raped by this system. It offends my reasonability and my intellect and my education. Yes, most people will not reject the system - because they were turned into dfepending people who live of if, due to their weakness. Thats why socialist populsits want more and more "service" provided to them by the state. and thats why I call all this voter-bribery. And you buy it. You fall for it.

Before telling me I should get my head out of the ground, better take care of your own.

You do not get rid of crime when beign elft with the choice b etween three different mafiosi for leadership. That choice is no freedom, that choice is an alibi. It is no choice.

And this: when you are in an assembly, say flat owners in a shared property or house, then your votre has a weight of 1/10th. It could make a difference. Butg when there are lets say 90 million voters, then your vote has a weight of 1/90,000,000.

Go on, feel important. No matter how you vote, the final result is not affected by you.

They swing a carrot before your nose. And you run after it, pulling their carriage. Gratulations, smarty.

mapuc · 09-03-19, 10:34 AM

I can't remember who said something like

If voting meant something, people would not be allowed to vote.

Markus

Skybird · 09-07-19, 04:48 AM

Luftwaffel: beside the technical problems, illustrated by that spare parts are not available from industrial side, and inspections of planes lasting for over one year, another problem makes itself increasingly felt: pilots are "fleeing" from the service, due to better working cinditons and payment in civiolian aviation. On the parade air base Laage, the base commander says he has 23 pilots - but 20 more pilots are needed. On other air bases, the quota of unmanned pilot positions varies between 35 and 50%.

Very much deeper reputation could not fall. In past weeks i read that the situation in the navy is not much different, so it is in the army. They do not get sufficient recruits anymore, anywhere. Which in case of pilots also means: recruits qualified enough for the training.

https://translate.google.de/translat...n%2Fa-50275916

Jimbuna · 09-07-19, 08:39 AM

That must be most worrying and hopefully the UK armed forces will not be experiencing further expenditure cuts to follow suit.

Skybird · 09-07-19, 09:00 AM

Correction: me and my typos... The air base at Laage is the parade and training facility of the Luftwaffel. The base commander there says that he has 23 pilots - and 20 cockpit seats are vacant. So even on the best air base the germans have, they cannot crew more than one half of their fighters there.

09-02-19, 10:38 AM	#813
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	As such you may want to consider voting, if only to reduce harm. From my perspective Russia is a good example here. Some opposition leaders agitated for a boycott, it did not happen to the extend that it would undermine the elections, but their supporters did not vote. And because they did not vote the percentages slanted in favor of Putin, giving him a better mandate. __________________ Grumpy as always.

09-02-19, 06:09 PM	#815
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Sigh. The above ^perfectly illustrates why I am against general voting rights. And sicne I explkained it in moire dtail repatrely in the past 2, 3 years, i cut it hsort this time. If you want to go deeper into the amyn highly valid arugments why most voters owe it to the common good to NOT vote and why the single voter is irrelevcant and decides no9 election by himself, you will need to investigate a bit deeper and spend some time and read one or two or three books, I once again recommend Jason Brennan, and when one searches the name in this forum, one can find some links to him I have set up in the past, and some texts by him. I cut it short for myself, sicne I do not want to dance the same dance all the time, and post this link as a starter only. I may disagree with the alternatives that Brennan (or Hoppe, for that reason) present, but his (their) diagnosis of the rotten state democracy is in (and always inevitably must lead to by its core essence and nature) , is 100% on target, there is nothing I object to. https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...out-to-be.html Again, Brennan, like Hoppe, is a brilliant (and entertaining) diagnostician. His prescribed antidots are open for discussion, however. and he admits that himself. Just not stikcing tot he old failed ways, but triyng new ones on small scale to see whether they work, and if so,then widening them, that is his idea. You will not change a corrupt regime by playing the game by its corrupted rules and believing its corrupted propaganda. The only way is to force it from outside its rules to leave and run away, by boycotting its claim for authority, and disobeying the fat cats' demands by which they protect their own careers and interests. If you do not understands that,k that is another arument in itsel fthen why you shouzd iot be allowed to vote. because you add active harm to the community and the common good. And reason anyway. Politics today do not work for the common good, they workkr for the actor's own good. Party interest and political actors' interest goes before communal and national interest. You can see it everywhere. In Germany. In Britain. In the US. In France. In the EU. In china. In Russia. And voters fall for it. Every. Single. Time. They disqualify themselves for being able to vote. Hobbits, Brennan calls them. Its not about "escaping the majority". That too, yes, but that ius not the core when refusing to vcote. Itd about deligitimizing a system itself. Once turnout is down to below 5% or less, no "winner" can claim anymore to represent anmd stand for anythign or anyone in society. Thats why I always post just voting results that are standardised against the voting turnout - to show what a small fraction of society the big winners indeed are only standing for. Their demand to swing the clubs of power, is illegitimate from all beginning on. They are ursurpers. They want to play in the casino of powerpoltics for their own win, but they use the others' money to pay the bets. The self-understanding behind this reminds of the era of absolutism and serfdom. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-03-19, 03:51 AM	#816
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Boycot does not cover you from the results of other people voting and legislation being passed, unless you can pull out a very low turn out and this is not realistic. As such this is you hiding your head in the ground and pretending that everything is ok by boycot. And if the voting rights are given out to select people, you are not going to get them period, unless you join the class of the fat cats that you seem to despise so much. __________________ Grumpy as always. Last edited by ikalugin; 09-03-19 at 05:25 AM.

09-03-19, 04:11 AM	#817
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	I can not speak for the average German voter but here in the UK we are stuck with a load of poo bags who don't give a poo about us and why? The voters have forgotten they work for us which has stopped. There will be no change for the better until the voters wake up and they will never wake up so the end result it will get worst. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

09-03-19, 05:27 AM	#820
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Yes, but then skybird has many unrealistic ideas so the boycot one does not surprise me. __________________ Grumpy as always.

09-02-19, 05:26 PM	#814
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Wait a minute, I get it: The philosopher's stone was found by a small but oh so furious elite group on a chat forum originally devoted to marine simulation video games and it had written "voting is stupid" and "politicians are scum" on it. Thus this elite group had stopped voting long ago. But that didn't stop them from spraying poison on the democratic process and the outcomes of the process they had decided not to take part in. They simply neglected that politics is the art of the possible and reasonable compromises, and sometimes it is a "one step forward, two steps back" business. And between the lines of hate and anger in their multitudinous posts it became clear they wanted to play it "my way or the highway". When they found out that there were far too many heretics to burn them all, they became cynical. When they realized they had become prisoners of their own device they felt embittered. Their world had turned into a dark, cold and LONESOME place. homo sum humani a me nihil alienum puto

09-03-19, 06:47 AM	#821
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I am not stupid, ikalugin, I know that a turnout of 2% is unrealistic. But it is about refusing to legitim ise a gang of paraistes and mobsters. I do not put my hea din the ground - but you do. You say the alternativ eis playing by the rule sof theirs. You ignore that that way nothign chnages, and nothing will chnage,a nd that these rulers were deigned to make sure right this: that nothign chnages. Partoiresd come and go, names cvome and go. The system, the rules stay. I feel abused and raped by this system. It offends my reasonability and my intellect and my education. Yes, most people will not reject the system - because they were turned into dfepending people who live of if, due to their weakness. Thats why socialist populsits want more and more "service" provided to them by the state. and thats why I call all this voter-bribery. And you buy it. You fall for it. Before telling me I should get my head out of the ground, better take care of your own. You do not get rid of crime when beign elft with the choice b etween three different mafiosi for leadership. That choice is no freedom, that choice is an alibi. It is no choice. And this: when you are in an assembly, say flat owners in a shared property or house, then your votre has a weight of 1/10th. It could make a difference. Butg when there are lets say 90 million voters, then your vote has a weight of 1/90,000,000. Go on, feel important. No matter how you vote, the final result is not affected by you. They swing a carrot before your nose. And you run after it, pulling their carriage. Gratulations, smarty. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-03-19, 10:34 AM	#822
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 17,877 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	I can't remember who said something like If voting meant something, people would not be allowed to vote. Markus

09-07-19, 04:48 AM	#823
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Luftwaffel: beside the technical problems, illustrated by that spare parts are not available from industrial side, and inspections of planes lasting for over one year, another problem makes itself increasingly felt: pilots are "fleeing" from the service, due to better working cinditons and payment in civiolian aviation. On the parade air base Laage, the base commander says he has 23 pilots - but 20 more pilots are needed. On other air bases, the quota of unmanned pilot positions varies between 35 and 50%. Very much deeper reputation could not fall. In past weeks i read that the situation in the navy is not much different, so it is in the army. They do not get sufficient recruits anymore, anywhere. Which in case of pilots also means: recruits qualified enough for the training. https://translate.google.de/translat...n%2Fa-50275916 __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 09-07-19 at 08:58 AM.

09-07-19, 08:39 AM	#824
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,175 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	That must be most worrying and hopefully the UK armed forces will not be experiencing further expenditure cuts to follow suit. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

09-07-19, 09:00 AM	#825
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,495 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Correction: me and my typos... The air base at Laage is the parade and training facility of the Luftwaffel. The base commander there says that he has 23 pilots - and 20 cockpit seats are vacant. So even on the best air base the germans have, they cannot crew more than one half of their fighters there. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.