LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod - Page 19

Molon Labe · 09-14-05, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Molon, you can still fire the MK54 from the Nav Map, I'm not sure why can't use them with waypoints. I am going to play around with a few things, but for now, fire the torpedos from the Nav Map, that way, you can also select the individual torpedo dropped by the helo.

I think this has something to do with the hardcoding of user platform weapons, and the FFG AI helo is something of a gray area, so part of the game is hardcoded to ignore weapon changes (the interface modules) and the rest of the game allows the change. As I almost never fire torpedos off of waypoints in the air platforms, this doesn't effect me too much, but I don't think we have a workaround in the DB, the game is coded that way.

I have to say thank you very much for putting the mod through such a very thorough review.

LW, unless your opponent is incompetent of off-guard, ordering the helo to drop without assigning a waypoint will accomplish nothing but getting the helo shot down. I'm glad you're looking into the waypoint problem, but if you can't do it, I think you should return the loadout back to normal. Using the nav map is simply not a viable option.

Oh, and I haven't been thorough yet. I've just run 3 missions through and noted some observations. I might get thorough over the weekend

LuftWolf · 09-14-05, 11:44 AM

Gregcom, oops, yeah we'll make a new frequency for the ADCAP!

Fish, the last thing we want to do is add a burden to the player. However, new information access comes with a price and in this case that price is either the extra work of turning off auto TMA and doing your own TMA for a time or leaving auto TMA on and doing the recalculations and replot in your head to place your target. I have the next two days or so to actually PLAY with the mod, so maybe I'll lean in other direction and say that it's just a pain, but I think if you had a handle on just how short a range the torpedo sensors pick up targets, you'd be able to work around the problem in your head.

Molon, I'm not sure why waypoints with torpedo drops are even useful, let alone necessary. Perhaps I really do need to play the game more.

After some thought, here is the actual problem with helo loadout: The original loadout of the AI controlled helo on the player FFG is two mk50 and one mk46 ASW Torpedo, NOT the regular mk46 torpedo. If it were the mk46 normal torpedo as the original we could change the specs of it all day long and nothing would fail. However, if we simply changed the torpedo from Mk46 ASW to Mk46 normal (as should be the case, there is no MK46 ASW only torpedo in real-life, this was put in to prevent the AI helo from attacking surface ships with Mk46 for some unknown reason), the same problem would arise.

So it seems like the choice is either have the normal mk46 ASW torpedo reassigned (we have changed the asw version of the torpedo to normal specs so it could be assignec to non-US platforms) to the AI MH-60 (player controlled helo is unaffected) and get waypoint function for that one torpedo, or have the MK54 for the AI controlled helo but without the ability to drop it on an assigned waypoint. I am going to try some working around now, but I'm not hopeful.

Perhaps you could explain to me how to use torpedo drop points?

LuftWolf · 09-14-05, 12:13 PM

Molon,

I have confirmed that restoring the Mk 46 ASW Torpedo to the AI MH-60R of the player controlled FFG restores full torpedo waypoint functionality to the platform's third torpedo. This change effects ONLY the AI controlled MH-60R's. The "bug" is hardcoded into the interface modules and there is no workaround that I can think of.

The choice right now stands at MK-54 with no waypoint capability or Mk-46 (modded to normal version) with waypoint capability.

I am going to try changing the load out of the helo now, perhaps by trying to make the situation worse I'll find a solution. :|\

Edit: I don't think there is any more progress to be made in fixing this, just the decision outlined above. To be honest, I'll need a really convincing argument not to leave it as is, however, I don't think I'll be changing the loadout down to 1 Mk50 and 2 Mk54 in the distribution version since it seems to be a valueable feature, torpedo waypoints, that I just don't use (I'm simply not that on top of when I want to drop a torpedo, usually I decide within seconds of doing it or have plenty of time to deliberate a shot, but not in between anyway...). So I guess only my version will have two Mk54's and only one Mk50 anyone else feels like I do.

I'm really interested to hear what everyone thinks of this situation, since it's a clear choice for once.

:hmm:

Edit: I have created polls on the main DW forum about the Mk54 and the torpedo feedback feature.

Molon Labe · 09-14-05, 02:47 PM

LW,

thanks for looking into the loadout.

To answer your question, to set a waypoint, you go to ASTAC and click on the helicopter symbol on the horizontal situation display scope. Then, click the "torpedo" (or maybe "weapon") buttom toward the bottom of the display. A box with a "T" attached will appear on the scope in front of the helicopter. You then can drag this to the location you want the helo to drop at (just as you would do for sonobouys)

Tgio · 09-14-05, 02:48 PM

Some feedbak for you guys.

1) Please put in the doc the advice: "End your saved mission before using the mod. Otherwise you will not be able to load them". I discovered this today, not a problem for me (I use just 1 mission saving and 1 campaign saving) - I think it is not a problem with only my installation.

2) Have you modded AI subs to remove the "blind spot"? Just curious...

3) Helo loadout. I've never used torpedo waypoint :hmm: (a lot of buoys, indeed

). So I don't miss them. Using the map works great for me... My helo dropped its torpedos at a safe distance against enemy surface ships while playing escort to the Viraat (campaign mission)

.

4) A Silly question. Have you modded sensor positions? At the end of missions I like staying on the bridge and having a look around. I've pointed my binoculars on the Viraat battlegroup and noted the carrier's radar sweeping. but NOT on its mast!!! It was just FLYING CIRCLES around the ship

!!!! To be sure switched Truth ON (maybe I've seen a helo, after all). Nope. Note this: 3D views is OK, problem occours only using binoculars and watching the Viraat.

I'm not kidding and I'm not drunk too...

Cheers

LuftWolf · 09-14-05, 03:34 PM

Molon, yes I know THAT!

I mean, how do you use them tactically, but you answer that in the poll thread.

Tgio,

1) Yeah, sorry, that should probably be in there, I've changed my DB so many times that I take it for granted that people don't know database changes invalidate saved games for the new db.

2) All sonar-bearing platforms have sonar parameters that reflect their real-world capabilities as modelled by DW. So, subs and ships without a TA have a baffle and subs and ships with a TA have less sensitive sonars in the front sphere and side hull positions. All AI sonar configurations are based and modified off of either the 688(i), the Akula, the Kilo , or the FFG sensors.

3) Sounds good! Me too!

4) No, we haven't changed anything to do with the Viraat radar that would cause that to happen. Since it didn't happen in 3-D view, I would guess that it was some kind of bug related to that particular load or saved-game. Not sure, wierd. Did you notice in with the standard DB and have you repeated it from a fresh game? I can look in the DB to see if there is anything wierd there.

Molon Labe · 09-14-05, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

2) All sonar-bearing platforms have sonar parameters that reflect their real-world capabilities as modelled by DW. So, subs and ships without a TA have a baffle and subs and ships with a TA have less sensitive sonars in the front sphere and side hull positions. All AI sonar configurations are based and modified off of either the 688(i), the Akula, the Kilo , or the FFG sensors.

Does this mean that the sensitivity of the AI sensors is the same as the playable platform is was modeled after? That could explain the better-than-expected performance of the Udaloy in detecting the transiting 688I under the layer. (Although I think the performance was a little too good for either vessel, but that's purely speculative)

LuftWolf · 09-14-05, 04:55 PM

No, there are something like 50 to 60 AI sonar models in the mod (up from the stock DB which had 2). There are up to three variations of any individual sensor.

I can tell you the Udaloy array is fairly less sensitive than the SQR-19.

I think your tests are showing better than expected performance because you aren't taking into account how much louder platforms become now when they are moving above 1/4 to 1/3 of max speed.

Cheers,
David

LuftWolf · 09-15-05, 01:23 PM

Ok, I just wanted to let you guys know that I had an oversight when entering values I was responsible for into the DB: I forgot to correct the seekers for the French torpedos L5, F17, E15, and the Germans torpedos SUT and SST-4. They retain the original seekers.

I have already corrected this in the working database we have now.

The following are also being considered for 2.01:

--Increase effectiveness of launched torpedo CM's to 50% (done).

--Missing torpedo seekers (done) and make distinct active ping frequencies for each torpedo active sonar.

--Passive sonar sound level and Sound vs Speed tweaking.

--Editing of all active sonar models along the lines of the FFG and DICASS mods Amizaur has done for v2.0, based on the success of the initial changes.

--Documentation updates: POLISH THE README (emphasis added for me), add unit specification tables including sonar capabilities, and correct the graphs to reflect new values.

Let me know if there is anything else you have raised that I am forgetting. Thank you!

Cheers,
David

Amizaur · 09-15-05, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlegM

Having said that, here goes my criticims - it's not going to be nice, so watch out

Well call me shallow, stupid, boring or what have you but I am documentation freak, especially when it comes to modding...

Oleg, all criticism is welcomed and your is very well-grounded

The documentaton should be better and will be made from the scratch.
Only it would took a day longer before mod could be relased.
I didn't know that Luftwolf will include my comments directly into readme

And the ReadMe should be in txt or at least there should be a copy of it in txt.

And something I forgot to write before - the mod is not very well tested as a whole. We had no time. So there can be errors. There probably are errors

. But I promise they will be fixed as soon as found and reported to us

Well some things will be fine tuned, documentation will be written again, so now I think we should rather call the relase 2.0beta

but anyway we have some great feedback from you, thanx !

LuftWolf · 09-15-05, 07:46 PM

Quote:

I didn't know that Luftwolf will include my comments directly into readme And the ReadMe should be in txt or at least there should be a copy of it in txt.

I apologize for that. A reasonable rewritting of the whole thing would have taken hours longer than I had the morning we released the mod.

Future releases will not be made under the same time pressure and so we will be able to document everything in a polished and thorough manner. I really appreciate your forebearance with us on this and a few other rough spots.

Amizaur · 09-15-05, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathblow

Great mod. Can tell a lot of work went into it. Much props and I'm throughly enjoying it.

You asked for feedback. You might want to reconsider the new AI minimum depths for ASW torps (helo drops, ASROCs, etc). I was able to exploit it in my sub, by emergency blowing to the surface everytime I got a helo-dropped torp that I couldn't evade. Shot to the surface, while the torps circled below unable to reach me. When they finally went into search mode, dropped back down to speed away, until they reaquired, then rinse and repeat. Worked every time against he Mk46s
Its good to prevent friendly fire, but couldn't possibly be exploited against Stallion or SS-n-27-ASW weps.

db

Well, now I see your problem. OK, we'll check this

The AI torpedos ceiling is modified ONLY if there are surface targets in vicinity. If you are a lonely sub in the middle of an ocean, they will get you on the surface with no problems. If there are surface tagrets in proximity (that torpedo could detect) then ceiling is changed and then you can escape by surfacing.

(so if there were NO surface targets close when you experienced this, then you found a bug! it shouldn't work this way then)

I could do this other way and order to always attack a sub whereever it is, and always avoid surface. I chosed to make it more realistic, and if there are surface targets close you can escape to the surface, as I assume than responsible human operator would NOT set torpedo ceiling up to the surface is there are innocent civilian or own surfaces close. If the sub surfaces... well somebody will take care of him in most cases with some guns or missiles :-). He can't dive down again untill the torpedo is circling below, in most cases.
If there is no surface ships in proximity or the torpedo will be dropped in a way that it will not see other targets than the sub (so in direction away from the surface target) the ceiling will be not affected and surfacing will not help. Also settings of human player torps are not affected, human player can risk and set ceiling to whatever value he wants, it's his responsibility. I hope I cleared this a little.
If it turns on that the doctrine behaviour can in fact be exploited by players too much (so they will be escaping by surfacing close to civilian targets - but this is IMO realistic way to escape, who would set his SUBROC's ceiling to surface when they are civilians or friendlies on the surface ?) then I will change the conditions and escape by surfacing will be not possible in any situation. It's possible and very easy, I only tried to add some realism to AI actions, but if this not work good and is too easy to exploit - I will change it!

P.S.

Luftwolf, it was intended by me to be this way - that you CAN escape by surfacing sometimes - if there are surface targets close

.
I will test it further checking how easy it's to exploit this against AI and can change it to always attact sub if needed.
Well, at least Akula drivers now can attack with SUBROCs enemy subs in proximity of civilian ships - they know that torps will be avoiding them (in 95%). Before they couldn't because they would kill civilian most likely

.

Cheers!

OlegM · 09-15-05, 08:07 PM

OK I said some time ago I'd give short tutorial on how to change the data in USNI database to match the changes in mod (this mod or any other mod).

I think it's really simple and intuitive, but if you never edited it before may be confusing at first.

First find usnidata.grp and usnidata.ndx in DW graphics folder. Make backup, copy at safe place blah etc.

Graphics files in DW (and that includes usnidata) are stored in archives, much like Zip or RAR archives. All USNI data (text and photos, not 3D models though) is stored within usnidata.grp file. Unlike Zip and RAR archives, DW .GRP files have external index file, with extension .NDX.

Now take decmpress command line utility, available at many DW sites (Subguru Bill has it, if not ask me and I'll send it to you).

Use command line utility to decompress the usnidata file(s).

Syntax is: decompress usnidata.ndx.

Subdirectory with contents of unsidata.grp is created.

Enter the said directory, and you'll find bunch of photos and simple TXT files describing various stuff from the game. You can easily change any TXT file to match the data you modded! You can even add new items, change or add photos etc.

Of special interest are various xxx_TOC.txt files.

TOC stands for Table of contents, and these files contain "pointers" to sub cathegories. It's really simple, open them for yourself and see.

TOC files are important if you want to add new items to USNI database. Since LWA mod so far didn't add anything, merely changed the data for existing weapons and stuff, I guess for now TOC files need not be changed at all. If you add new weapons - you'll need to change TOC files too.

OK, when you're done editing - you need to re-pack the changed and added files back into usnidata.grp, and usnidata.ndx.

This can be done in two ways.

You will need compress, small command line utility similar to already mentioned decompress, both are freely available and distributable.

First, either you can repack and rebuild the usnidata.XXX pair of files yourself, and make them available to download, in full, to whoever wants it (it's around 12 MB).

Alternative to that is that you make small installer batch file, as many graphic modders already did. Again this is so simple even I, lacking any programming skills, can do it.

Batch file has to use freely distributable compress utility to re-pack the changed and added files.

If you decide to use batch installer, and separate files instead of making whole already packed usnidata.grp for download, the whole download will be MUCH smaller. Because it will contain only the files you changed or added (plus batch installer), not the whole 12 MB USNI database.

Hope all this was clear enough - if not, PM me or ask additional questions. I think mod as complex as this (and getting more complex by each day) really needs USNI support so that players can see various data and parameters for themselves from the game itself.

Oleg

Amizaur · 09-15-05, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tgio

Some feedbak for you guys.

pointed my binoculars on the Viraat battlegroup and noted the carrier's radar sweeping. but NOT on its mast!!! It was just FLYING CIRCLES around the ship

!!!! To be sure switched Truth ON (maybe I've seen a helo, after all). Nope. Note this: 3D views is OK, problem occours only using binoculars and watching the Viraat.

I'm not kidding and I'm not drunk too...

Cheers

I know what you are talking about

. I know because this is the way I ALWAYS see P-3's propellers by binoculars - flying around the plane

I though it's some kind of 3D error, and though that it's on my comp only if no one else reports this

. AFAIK we didn't change sensor positions.
Take a look at P-3 in flight with binoculars, and tell me if the propellers are flying around the plane for you too, I'm curious

Deathblow · 09-15-05, 08:16 PM

In the map that I tested it on the close surface was about 40km away. And the torps were helo-dropped Mk 46's.

I tested it about 3 times, but only on one particular map. The "Defend Vladivostok" mission (one of the downloadable scenarios on Bill's website. Haven't tried it out against any of the other maps.

That map is also strange in that the AI ships don't shoot ASM at you when you surface, so perhaps its just a glitch. Perhaps test it out on the same map (let the helos find you away from the fleet and then dropp on you. Go to surface and sit and see if the torps hit you.)

I'm not really complaining. Its kindof a nice effect, emergency blowing and splashing through the surface. Just thought "hm... if this is always repeatable, then its going to be sorta a cheat if they always stop at their minimum"

on a side note. man those subs are quiet now! Scary to be faces other sub that doesn't want to be found!

09-14-05, 11:44 AM	#272
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Gregcom, oops, yeah we'll make a new frequency for the ADCAP! Fish, the last thing we want to do is add a burden to the player. However, new information access comes with a price and in this case that price is either the extra work of turning off auto TMA and doing your own TMA for a time or leaving auto TMA on and doing the recalculations and replot in your head to place your target. I have the next two days or so to actually PLAY with the mod, so maybe I'll lean in other direction and say that it's just a pain, but I think if you had a handle on just how short a range the torpedo sensors pick up targets, you'd be able to work around the problem in your head. Molon, I'm not sure why waypoints with torpedo drops are even useful, let alone necessary. Perhaps I really do need to play the game more. After some thought, here is the actual problem with helo loadout: The original loadout of the AI controlled helo on the player FFG is two mk50 and one mk46 ASW Torpedo, NOT the regular mk46 torpedo. If it were the mk46 normal torpedo as the original we could change the specs of it all day long and nothing would fail. However, if we simply changed the torpedo from Mk46 ASW to Mk46 normal (as should be the case, there is no MK46 ASW only torpedo in real-life, this was put in to prevent the AI helo from attacking surface ships with Mk46 for some unknown reason), the same problem would arise. So it seems like the choice is either have the normal mk46 ASW torpedo reassigned (we have changed the asw version of the torpedo to normal specs so it could be assignec to non-US platforms) to the AI MH-60 (player controlled helo is unaffected) and get waypoint function for that one torpedo, or have the MK54 for the AI controlled helo but without the ability to drop it on an assigned waypoint. I am going to try some working around now, but I'm not hopeful. Perhaps you could explain to me how to use torpedo drop points? __________________ LW

09-14-05, 12:13 PM	#273
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Molon, I have confirmed that restoring the Mk 46 ASW Torpedo to the AI MH-60R of the player controlled FFG restores full torpedo waypoint functionality to the platform's third torpedo. This change effects ONLY the AI controlled MH-60R's. The "bug" is hardcoded into the interface modules and there is no workaround that I can think of. The choice right now stands at MK-54 with no waypoint capability or Mk-46 (modded to normal version) with waypoint capability. I am going to try changing the load out of the helo now, perhaps by trying to make the situation worse I'll find a solution. :\|\ Edit: I don't think there is any more progress to be made in fixing this, just the decision outlined above. To be honest, I'll need a really convincing argument not to leave it as is, however, I don't think I'll be changing the loadout down to 1 Mk50 and 2 Mk54 in the distribution version since it seems to be a valueable feature, torpedo waypoints, that I just don't use (I'm simply not that on top of when I want to drop a torpedo, usually I decide within seconds of doing it or have plenty of time to deliberate a shot, but not in between anyway...). So I guess only my version will have two Mk54's and only one Mk50 anyone else feels like I do. I'm really interested to hear what everyone thinks of this situation, since it's a clear choice for once. :hmm: Edit: I have created polls on the main DW forum about the Mk54 and the torpedo feedback feature. __________________ LW

09-14-05, 03:34 PM	#276
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Molon, yes I know THAT! I mean, how do you use them tactically, but you answer that in the poll thread. Tgio, 1) Yeah, sorry, that should probably be in there, I've changed my DB so many times that I take it for granted that people don't know database changes invalidate saved games for the new db. 2) All sonar-bearing platforms have sonar parameters that reflect their real-world capabilities as modelled by DW. So, subs and ships without a TA have a baffle and subs and ships with a TA have less sensitive sonars in the front sphere and side hull positions. All AI sonar configurations are based and modified off of either the 688(i), the Akula, the Kilo , or the FFG sensors. 3) Sounds good! Me too! 4) No, we haven't changed anything to do with the Viraat radar that would cause that to happen. Since it didn't happen in 3-D view, I would guess that it was some kind of bug related to that particular load or saved-game. Not sure, wierd. Did you notice in with the standard DB and have you repeated it from a fresh game? I can look in the DB to see if there is anything wierd there. __________________ LW

09-14-05, 04:55 PM	#278
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	No, there are something like 50 to 60 AI sonar models in the mod (up from the stock DB which had 2). There are up to three variations of any individual sensor. I can tell you the Udaloy array is fairly less sensitive than the SQR-19. I think your tests are showing better than expected performance because you aren't taking into account how much louder platforms become now when they are moving above 1/4 to 1/3 of max speed. Cheers, David __________________ LW

09-15-05, 01:23 PM	#279
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Ok, I just wanted to let you guys know that I had an oversight when entering values I was responsible for into the DB: I forgot to correct the seekers for the French torpedos L5, F17, E15, and the Germans torpedos SUT and SST-4. They retain the original seekers. I have already corrected this in the working database we have now. The following are also being considered for 2.01: --Increase effectiveness of launched torpedo CM's to 50% (done). --Missing torpedo seekers (done) and make distinct active ping frequencies for each torpedo active sonar. --Passive sonar sound level and Sound vs Speed tweaking. --Editing of all active sonar models along the lines of the FFG and DICASS mods Amizaur has done for v2.0, based on the success of the initial changes. --Documentation updates: POLISH THE README (emphasis added for me), add unit specification tables including sonar capabilities, and correct the graphs to reflect new values. Let me know if there is anything else you have raised that I am forgetting. Thank you! Cheers, David __________________ LW

09-14-05, 02:47 PM	#274
Molon Labe Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Along the Watchtower Posts: 3,810 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 5	LW, thanks for looking into the loadout. To answer your question, to set a waypoint, you go to ASTAC and click on the helicopter symbol on the horizontal situation display scope. Then, click the "torpedo" (or maybe "weapon") buttom toward the bottom of the display. A box with a "T" attached will appear on the scope in front of the helicopter. You then can drag this to the location you want the helo to drop at (just as you would do for sonobouys)

09-14-05, 02:48 PM	#275
Tgio Seaman Join Date: May 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 37 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Some feedbak for you guys. 1) Please put in the doc the advice: "End your saved mission before using the mod. Otherwise you will not be able to load them". I discovered this today, not a problem for me (I use just 1 mission saving and 1 campaign saving) - I think it is not a problem with only my installation. 2) Have you modded AI subs to remove the "blind spot"? Just curious... 3) Helo loadout. I've never used torpedo waypoint :hmm: (a lot of buoys, indeed ). So I don't miss them. Using the map works great for me... My helo dropped its torpedos at a safe distance against enemy surface ships while playing escort to the Viraat (campaign mission) . 4) A Silly question. Have you modded sensor positions? At the end of missions I like staying on the bridge and having a look around. I've pointed my binoculars on the Viraat battlegroup and noted the carrier's radar sweeping. but NOT on its mast!!! It was just FLYING CIRCLES around the ship !!!! To be sure switched Truth ON (maybe I've seen a helo, after all). Nope. Note this: 3D views is OK, problem occours only using binoculars and watching the Viraat. I'm not kidding and I'm not drunk too... Cheers

09-15-05, 08:07 PM	#283
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	OK I said some time ago I'd give short tutorial on how to change the data in USNI database to match the changes in mod (this mod or any other mod). I think it's really simple and intuitive, but if you never edited it before may be confusing at first. First find usnidata.grp and usnidata.ndx in DW graphics folder. Make backup, copy at safe place blah etc. Graphics files in DW (and that includes usnidata) are stored in archives, much like Zip or RAR archives. All USNI data (text and photos, not 3D models though) is stored within usnidata.grp file. Unlike Zip and RAR archives, DW .GRP files have external index file, with extension .NDX. Now take decmpress command line utility, available at many DW sites (Subguru Bill has it, if not ask me and I'll send it to you). Use command line utility to decompress the usnidata file(s). Syntax is: decompress usnidata.ndx. Subdirectory with contents of unsidata.grp is created. Enter the said directory, and you'll find bunch of photos and simple TXT files describing various stuff from the game. You can easily change any TXT file to match the data you modded! You can even add new items, change or add photos etc. Of special interest are various xxx_TOC.txt files. TOC stands for Table of contents, and these files contain "pointers" to sub cathegories. It's really simple, open them for yourself and see. TOC files are important if you want to add new items to USNI database. Since LWA mod so far didn't add anything, merely changed the data for existing weapons and stuff, I guess for now TOC files need not be changed at all. If you add new weapons - you'll need to change TOC files too. OK, when you're done editing - you need to re-pack the changed and added files back into usnidata.grp, and usnidata.ndx. This can be done in two ways. You will need compress, small command line utility similar to already mentioned decompress, both are freely available and distributable. First, either you can repack and rebuild the usnidata.XXX pair of files yourself, and make them available to download, in full, to whoever wants it (it's around 12 MB). Alternative to that is that you make small installer batch file, as many graphic modders already did. Again this is so simple even I, lacking any programming skills, can do it. Batch file has to use freely distributable compress utility to re-pack the changed and added files. If you decide to use batch installer, and separate files instead of making whole already packed usnidata.grp for download, the whole download will be MUCH smaller. Because it will contain only the files you changed or added (plus batch installer), not the whole 12 MB USNI database. Hope all this was clear enough - if not, PM me or ask additional questions. I think mod as complex as this (and getting more complex by each day) really needs USNI support so that players can see various data and parameters for themselves from the game itself. Oleg

09-15-05, 08:16 PM	#285
Deathblow Captain Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 518 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	In the map that I tested it on the close surface was about 40km away. And the torps were helo-dropped Mk 46's. I tested it about 3 times, but only on one particular map. The "Defend Vladivostok" mission (one of the downloadable scenarios on Bill's website. Haven't tried it out against any of the other maps. That map is also strange in that the AI ships don't shoot ASM at you when you surface, so perhaps its just a glitch. Perhaps test it out on the same map (let the helos find you away from the fleet and then dropp on you. Go to surface and sit and see if the torps hit you.) I'm not really complaining. Its kindof a nice effect, emergency blowing and splashing through the surface. Just thought "hm... if this is always repeatable, then its going to be sorta a cheat if they always stop at their minimum" on a side note. man those subs are quiet now! Scary to be faces other sub that doesn't want to be found!