US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Skybird]

"You heard me. Don't argue with me, but find me my votes."

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by August

There you go with the stupid nazi comparisons again Godwin.

When are you ever going to learn that we are not Germans, we are Americans. There are no fuhrers in our future, no fancy uniforms or swastikas. There has never been a president, including George Washington that the entire nation would just shut up for and blindly follow. We are far too diverse and far too big and much to fractious to follow a leader as slavishly as you like to fantasize.

Germans pretend that the nazis were some new and evil force who sneakily seized power amidst the chaos of a lost war, but in reality your people just traded one Kaiser for another more modern version with bureaucratic titles replacing the the ones of the old nobility in the preceding Reich. That's why the nazis were successful at taking over your country. No Weimar Republic with it's scary and untidy concepts of representative government was going to appeal to a nation of former subjects. You needed the another imperial master to pick up your leashes and that's exactly what happened.

But that's not going to happen here. Other bad things might happen to us but not that. So spare us the lectures. I've been reading this forum for 15 years and in the hundreds, perhaps thousands of anti-American political rants you have made over that time you haven't been right about us yet and you still aren't.

We are not Germans. Thank God.

August, your knowledge of the Weimar Republic and the current German view of it today is insufficient at best, to describe it in a polite way. You always say that foreigners do not understand America...yeah it seems the opposite is also quite true if I read what you are writing.

I do not always agree what Skybird writes here but in his thread he never indicated that he sees the danger of a "1:1 Hitler-clone" in your country. He actually describes the radicalization of the Republican Party and the impact which might have it on the democratic system.

It would also be quite beneficial if you listen to what your own scholars in your own country are saying about the current erosion of the democratic system in your country and the root causes of it.
That the last 10 living secretaries of defense of both parties feel obliged to write an open letter, publicly fearing a coup seems to me not a very promising sign that those theses are wrong, to be honest. Also that not a minor fraction of Republican voters think that Bill Gates wanna control people with the Covid-19 vaccine. And other conspiracy theories

[bstanko6]

@dowly...

Your question: “when will they be satisfied?”

My answer: Let’s see, the Democrats weren’t satisfied for four years so… Yeah!

[bstanko6]

@hawk67...

I have to defend August. The scholars in our country are all supported by big media. Which is completely biased to the Democratic Party.

The Democrats were completely evil for the last four years constantly challenging everything that the president did no matter what he did every minute of every day. Even accusing him of stuff they still cant pin on him.

And when you have media to back you up, you can paint him to look like what ever you want.

[bstanko6]

My thoughts on Trump…

Trump is not a career politician. He’s not a very refined politician. In fact I would agree with anybody in this room that he’s probably a very boisterous outspoken person who has child like fits.

But we have to understand the full picture of who Donald Trump is. He is a businessman. He has never held an office in any shape or form in his life until now.

The career politicians have come from generations of politicians, who have been slowly gouging money from the United States people for centuries. They’ve had their kickbacks, they’ve had their quid pro quo, and they have been going back-and-forth Pretending to be Republicans but secretly compromising for Democrats or other parties and vice versa. They have been carving this country up for themselves for too long.

To quote George Carlin, “it’s a big club and you ain’t in it!”

And Trump is no exception. He has never been in this club. So imagine their horror when he was elected! This is a man who is seeing all of their crap and has called them out on it. He hasn’t just called out the Democrats, he also called out the Republicans. And they just don’t like it.

I love Trump because he is calling these people out for what they’re doing. I’ve seen the social media and the mainstream media showing their true colors of who they support and they’ve been supporting these particular people for too many years.

Big tech loves China because China gives cheap materials to big Tech to make big profits. Who’s been fighting China more than anyone… Donald Trump. Of course big tech hates him.

You have to understand that the hate is not because Donald Trump is a big bully or a person who has fits, he’s hated because he is not profitable to these people who have been gouging us for years.

And when the US politicians and big tech and social media gouges us Americans, that means it’s boils over to you guys as well in other countries in the world. We’re all being screwed over and Donald Trump sees this.

That’s why I like him. I don’t like him because he’s a refined politician, he’s not! He’s taking a no bull**** approach to a big problem that has been affecting all of us in the world for years.

I know that none of us will agree whether or not Trump is good or Biden is better. All I know is Biden comes from the same group of people they have been screwing us over for years. This is why I am upset.

I hope you guys understand my position.

[Skybird]

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

I do not always agree what Skybird writes here but in his thread he never indicated that he sees the danger of a "1:1 Hitler-clone" in your country. He actually describes the radicalization of the Republican Party and the impact which might have it on the democratic system.

Skybird's discription of the 'the radicalization of the Republican Party' is a little hysterical and driven by what he sees on CNN. There may be a grain of truth to it but in fairness one has to recognize that both parties are becoming more radical and are moving away from the center. Eventually the old guard of the Democrat party will be gone and the new leaders will have to sell a radical and 'coastal elitist' agenda to the rest of America. I think it is going to be a tough sell. Neither party seems to be willing to take that risk and be a more centrist political entity. It's a shame because that is where the votes are.

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Its official Trump wins!

I sure would like to see that again

[Hawk66]

Originally Posted by u crank

Skybird's discription of the 'the radicalization of the Republican Party' is a little hysterical and driven by what he sees on CNN. There may be a grain of truth to it but in fairness one has to recognize that both parties are becoming more radical and are moving away from the center. Eventually the old guard of the Democrat party will be gone and the new leaders will have to sell a radical and 'coastal elitist' agenda to the rest of America. I think it is going to be a tough sell. Neither party seems to be willing to take that risk and be a more centrist political entity. It's a shame because that is where the votes are.

Yes, both parties are radicalizing.
But: One cannot compare those actions some Republicans are currently doing with that. Again see the letter of the 10 past secretaries - and this is only one example of it - the concern is in both parties. It is the erosion of the core system what is troubling .

This time it will probably be defeated. But what happens if in 2024 a next Trump-like candidate arises ? Smarter than him ? - now for everybody it is transparent how far you can go (and actually achieve) if you have the "support" of a substantial voter group.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

Yes, both parties are radicalizing.
But: One cannot compare those actions some Republicans are currently doing with that. Again see the letter of the 10 past secretaries - and this is only one example of it - the concern is in both parties. It is the erosion of the core system what is troubling .

This time it will probably be defeated. But what happens if in 2024 a next Trump-like candidate arises ? Smarter than him ? - now for everybody it is transparent how far you can go (and actually achieve) if you have the "support" of a substantial voter group.

One cannot compare those actions some Republicans are currently doing with that. Again see the letter of the 10 past secretaries - and this is only one example of it - the concern is in both parties. It is the erosion of the core system what is troubling .

Part of the problem is that the Executive branch of the US government has slowly become more powerful. Congress and the Courts are doing their best to thwart that power but Trump only inherited that power. He is abusing it in some ways but no more than his predecessors. This is a good read by Glenn Greenwald on Substack. The title says it all.

The Threat of Authoritarianism in the U.S. is Very Real, and Has Nothing To Do With Trump.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the...ritarianism-in

Virtually every prediction expressed by those who pushed this doomsday narrative of Trump as a rising dictator — usually with great profit for themselves — never materialized. While Trump radically escalated bombing campaigns he inherited from Bush and Obama, he started no new wars. When his policies were declared by courts to be unconstitutional, he either revised them to comport with judicial requirements (as in the case of his “Muslim ban”) or withdrew them (as in the case of diverting Pentagon funds to build his wall). No journalists were jailed for criticizing or reporting negatively on Trump, let alone killed, as was endlessly predicted and sometimes even implied. Bashing Trump was far more likely to yield best-selling books, social media stardom and new contracts as cable news “analysts” than interment in gulags or state reprisals. There were no Proud Boy insurrections or right-wing militias waging civil war in U.S. cities. Boastful and bizarre tweets aside, Trump’s administration was far more a continuation of the U.S. political tradition than a radical departure from it.

The real problem that you won't hear about on CNN.

A much-discussed 2014 study concluded that economic power has become so concentrated in the hands of such a small number of U.S. corporate giants and mega-billionaires, and that this concentration in economic power has ushered in virtually unchallengeable political power in their hands and virtually none in anyone else’s, that the U.S. more resembles oligarchy than anything else:

It's a Brave New World indeed.

The dominant strain of U.S. neoliberalism — the ruling coalition that has now consolidated power again — is authoritarianism. They view those who oppose them and reject their pieties not as adversaries to be engaged but as enemies, domestic terrorists, bigots, extremists and violence-inciters to be fired, censored, and silenced. And they have on their side — beyond the bulk of the corporate media, and the intelligence community, and Wall Street — an unprecedentedly powerful consortium of tech monopolies willing and able to exert greater control over a population that has rarely, if ever, been so divided, drained, deprived and anemic.

All of these authoritarian powers will, ironically, be invoked and justified in the name of stopping authoritarianism — not from those who wield power but from the movement that was just removed from power. Those who spent four years shrieking to great profit about the dangers of lurking “fascism” will — without realizing the irony — now use this merger of state and corporate power to consolidate their own authority, control the contours of permissible debate, and silence those who challenge them even further. Those most vocally screaming about growing authoritarianism in the U.S. over the last four years were very right in their core warning, but very wrong about the real source of that danger.

[Wolferz]

Number fourty-five is no longer the little engine that could.
He's switched to a dead end siding that is going to land his carcass in a federal jail. ROTFLMAO

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Trump is a chump and a sore loser.

[mapuc]

This much I do know.

What Trump did isn't exactly legal.

What I wonder is:

What happens now ?

Well he's still the President until 21 Jan.

Markus

[Catfish]

The former Pentagon chiefs warned against use of the military in any effort to change the outcome of the election.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/defenc...rump-1.5860345

[mapuc]

Will Trump sink this low ? And activate the military to remain in the White House.

I still say Trump may bark on the way out-but he will leave.

I can't imagine the other things. I don't like it.

Markus

[Mr Quatro]

Originally Posted by Catfish

The former Pentagon chiefs warned against use of the military in any effort to change the outcome of the election.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/defenc...rump-1.5860345

Yes I read that too ... This is reassuring that the USA won't become like some third world country over in Africa

I have the funny feeling that if the GOP wins in the Georgia Senate run off races for two senator's ... This will give them a majority over the democrat's and they won't care about Trump anymore, because they now have the power to override anything the US House would propose.

Four years of stalemate is available for president elect Joe Biden

or at least wo years till the next Senate races begin, but remember the US Senate still has two independents that could make a swing vote over to VP elect Harris