US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I think he's still looking for the cyber.


Meanwhile, prominent historian Richard J. Evans weighs in:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...h_all_dt_fb_ru

Wow a Slate article critical of a Republican. Imagine that. How do you believe any of the crap they write?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Wow a Slate article critical of a Republican. Imagine that. How do you believe any of the crap they write?

Would you prefer something from David Irving?

But sure, just throw it away as more lugenpresse if you like, I mean what does Richard Evans know, eh? Clearly he is of no academic quality at all because he's one of them liberals, and worst still, he's an academic liberal, the worst possible kind! An expert...which is even more condemning, I mean who needs experts any more? Clearly experts and academia is more of the liberal plot to take over America.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But sure, just throw it away as more lugenpresse if you like, I mean what does Richard Evans know, eh? Clearly he is of no academic quality at all because he's one of them liberals, and worst still, he's an academic liberal, the worst possible kind! An expert...which is even more condemning, I mean who needs experts any more? Clearly experts and academia is more of the liberal plot to take over America.

It's an interesting article but one has to be looking for the predicted result. And there is no shortage of people who are willing to do that.

https://medium.com/@jakefuentes/the-...0c5#.vlww1h5vm

the administration is deliberately testing the limits of governmental checks and balances to set up a self-serving, dangerous consolidation of power.

I find it amusing that on one hand some of Trump's detractors think he is an incompetent boob but others think he is this evil mastermind getting ready to put the moves on the USA.

Red pill or blue pill?

[Oberon]

Brown pill I think.

But honestly, when some of the prominent experts on Nazi Germany start getting concerned then I think there is a cause to be concerned.

[Bilge_Rat]

"Slate" and "Vox" are among the most biased, liberal anti-Trump rags out there, you may as well quote the DNC directly.

The New Third Reich is coming propaganda is really wearing thin.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But honestly, when some of the prominent experts on Nazi Germany start getting concerned then I think there is a cause to be concerned.

no there is not, that is pure partisan tripe.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

But honestly, when some of the prominent experts on Nazi Germany start getting concerned then I think there is a cause to be concerned.

That concern must be tempered with a comparison between the present day laws and checks and balances of the American System of government and that of the Weimar Republic. I'm not an expert but I don't see that a comparison can be made in any way.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Hehe, twelve or fifteen years ago we had a little collision about right this, you saying what you just repeated, and me back then still being stupid enough to think the state should be responsible and that instead of voluntary charity people should be forced to pay mandatorily for it via taxes.

Boy, have I swung around in these years. Has been a long thought voyage for me, it seems.

You already were right back then, of course. Today I completely agree.

Funny that some people strictly disagreeing with me on things around here hardly can imagine or remember that once, long time ago, I may have sounded like them. But as they say: if you are no socialist when you are are twenty, you are heartless, and if you still are a socialist when you are thirty, then you are dumb.

“I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” - Atlas Shrugged

Nothing wrong with change

Originally Posted by vienna

I may be mistaken, but I do believe Platapus' post is in reference to Trump's long-standing, well-known, and thoroughly documented history of either not paying or underpaying contracted debts related to his businesses. The "little people" in those many, many cases were honest small companies and individuals who got shafted by Trump and suffered significant monetary losses affecting not only themselves, but, also, the "little people" employees of the companies and the "little people" families of those who were scammed. It appears not even gaining the Oval Office has changed the ways of Trump:

Donald Trump’s D.C. Hotel Was Just Hit with a $2 Million Lawsuit -

http://fortune.com/2017/01/25/donald...it-contractor/

But the US taxpayer shouldn't worry; Trump won't default on his big money federal projects; after all, it isn't his money, so why should he even care, it's "house money' and, if any of it goes pear-shaped or fails, the "little people" will foot his bill...

<O>

In that case, if Platapus was referring to unethical dealing, I agree it needs to be stopped. I am on your side when it comes to viewing Donald Trump as a scam artist and the worst version of American business. I'm pretty sure I railed against him a year ago. He's a joke but we're stuck with him, because the Democrats weren't smart enough to jettison the Clintons. I would have voted for Bloomberg. I will say, he is following through on his campaign promises, so far, which many people told me he would not do ("he's just saying what people want to hear").

But yeah, you don't have top convince me, if Trump (with the Republicans going along) bust the national budget and drive up our national debt, it's all going to end badly.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Brown pill I think.

But honestly, when some of the prominent experts on Nazi Germany start getting concerned then I think there is a cause to be concerned.

Really? You think so?

From your article:

If the Jews were not killed, the Nazis said, they would destroy Germany completely

Now show me where Trump has ordered that an entire religion of our fellow citizens should be jailed and killed. You can't and this is the problem in a nutshell.

The media consistently exaggerates anything Trump says and puts the worst possible spin on it because they are controlled by his political opposition. They find useful idiots like this chump to take those exaggerations to a new level with comparisons to a regime from long ago that would have as much chance of getting into power here as a return to the feudal system. We got rid of one tyrant king, we will never anoint another. It wasn't true when they made the same comparisons to Obama and it's not true now, so stop being so eagerly sucked in by this tripe.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by u crank

That concern must be tempered with a comparison between the present day laws and checks and balances of the American System of government and that of the Weimar Republic. I'm not an expert but I don't see that a comparison can be made in any way.

A lot is made of these checks and balances, I remain to be totally convinced, especially when both houses are Republican majority and at some point soon so will be the Supreme Court. The GOP sees Trump as their golden goose who got them into power (although I think most of them have no idea how) and to see how quickly all of the 'Never Trump' camp (with a few exceptions) did a 180 and got in line behind him in the aftermath of his victory.

Originally Posted by August

Really? You think so?

From your article:



Now show me where Trump has ordered that an entire religion of our fellow citizens should be jailed and killed. You can't and this is the problem in a nutshell.

The media consistently exaggerates anything Trump says and puts the worst possible spin on it because they are controlled by his political opposition. They find useful idiots like this chump to take those exaggerations to a new level with comparisons to a regime from long ago that would have as much chance of getting into power here as a return to the feudal system. We got rid of one tyrant king, we will never anoint another. It wasn't true when they made the same comparisons to Obama and it's not true now, so stop being so eagerly sucked in by this tripe.

Useful idiots, eh? So this is a liberal academic conspiracy!

Alright, let's look at Hitler, more accurate, let's look at his speeches...in particular his early speeches. In these he mainly talks about the threat of Jews and Socialism, in particular Bolshevicks. He does not suggest that the Jews should be killed, but warns that they will destroy Germany if they are allowed to because that's all they know how to do. Some people who were affiliated to the Nazis, or supporters of them may have spoken of extermination, particularly those from the Deutschvölkischer Schutz- und Trutzbun, whos members included Heydrich and whose constitution included "The Bund fights for the moral rebirth of the German people . . . It considers the pernicious and destructive influence of Jewry to be the main cause of the defeat and the removal of this influence to be necessary for the political and economic recovery of Germany, and for the salvation of German culture"
Then, later, as the Nazis came to power, came mentions of 'annihilation' or 'extermination' of the Jews, who were their political, social and economic enemies (one of them at least, with Bolshevism right alongside them).
It didn't start with gas chambers, it started with the state encouraging division, and looking the other way when that division lead to violence against their targets.
Now, I'll only be too happy if Trump just bumbles along the next four to eight years and nothing exciting happens, but the social atmosphere is there for some real problems, and that, as well as some of Trumps comments is what is getting people worried, it's the rise of things like the 'Alt-Right', of 'Alt-Truth', of increased division and hostility. If it doesn't happen in America then it's going to happen somewhere else, most likely in Eastern Europe. Something bad is coming, and it's not the Muslim boogeyman under the bed, but what was awoken in us after 9/11.

[Rockstar]

Enough already. Why is the end of world always coming at us like a big truck going down a big hill, with no brakes? And why always go full Nazi, why cant we change things up a bit from time to time and draw analogies with the likes of Genghis, Kahn, Pol Pot, Muhammud, Stalin or Pope Liberius once in a while? Sheesh

Speaking of bumbling along....

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

A lot is made of these checks and balances, I remain to be totally convinced, especially when both houses are Republican majority and at some point soon so will be the Supreme Court.

You are assuming that all these politicians and judges will think and will act in lock step. Highly unlikely. You are also assuming that the American security agencies would go along in lock step. Also the military and police forces. That's a lot of assuming.

Then there is the final check and balance. An estimated 55 million gun owners in the U.S., many who are armed to prevent this very thing, the abuse of power by the government.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by u crank

You are assuming that all these politicians and judges will think and will act in lock step. Highly unlikely. You are also assuming that the American security agencies would go along in lock step. Also the military and police forces. That's a lot of assuming.

Then there is the final check and balance. An estimated 55 million gun owners in the U.S., many who are armed for to prevent this very thing, the abuse of power by the government.

It is a lot of assuming, but equally it all depends on who backs who, as you say. The security services are something that I could see going against Trump, but then who elects the head of the security services? And who fires them? The military and the police forces are also unknowns, but generals can always be replaced.
And as for those 55 million gun owners...most of them probably voted for Trump anyway, so they won't check or balance him.

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Enough already. Why is the end of world always coming at us like a big truck going down a big hill, with no brakes? And why always go full Nazi, why cant we change things up a bit from time to time and draw analogies with the likes of Genghis, Kahn, Pol Pot, Muhammud, Stalin or Pope Liberius once in a while? Sheesh

Speaking of bumbling along....

Oh dear...yes...don't remind us of that. With any luck Lizzie will just refuse to die and become God-Empress of mankind.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

And as for those 55 million gun owners...most of them probably voted for Trump anyway, so they won't check or balance him.

You're doing it again.

[Buddahaid]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Enough already. Why is the end of world always coming at us like a big truck going down a big hill, with no brakes? And why always go full Nazi, why cant we change things up a bit from time to time and draw analogies with the likes of Genghis, Kahn, Pol Pot, Muhammud, Stalin or Pope Liberius once in a while? Sheesh

Speaking of bumbling along....

Trying to change the subject?