DIVE WWII OUR SECRET HISTORY

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi. Guys
Thought you might be interested in this programme on Last Sunday on BBC2 which you can catch up on with the BBC Iplayer.
Diving on wrecks both military and merchant we see on the first episode the wreck of U1003 type 7c accidentally rammed while snorkelling. The wreck of a corvette showing it,s mortar still loaded and it,s stern blown off buy an acoustic torpedo.
Next week the wreck of U155 a type 9 that had an extensive career while it lasted.
With historic analysis of the wreck sites plus how the escort base in Ireland that without it could not have won the Atlantic War. The American troops stationed their 6 months before the attack on Pearl Harbour. The hidden command bunker found using ground sonar, only one of three in the British Isles, the other two known in London and Liverpool.
A programme not to be missed for any Subsimmer, totally fascinating.
Happy viewing Peter

[Jimbuna]

Pretty good viewing

I've moved this to a more appropriate section.

[THEBERBSTER]

Here is a brief flavour of the last programme

Fascinating pictures of a corvette with it's stern blown off by an acoustic torpedo but still showing it's mortar loaded.

U1003 type 7c is rammed unintensionally by a warship while at snorkel depth. Serious damage showing the observation scope flattened by the impact. The uboat survives despite being hunted by 14 warships.
Days later the captain makes an avoidable but catastrophic mistake and two thirds of his crew loose their lives. Bad judgement or did he panic?
A question from me. Why was the hydrophone operator not aware of this warship? Was the uboats engines interfering with the sound?

Video of U155 type 9 lying on the seabed off the coast of Ireland. Had an extensive career in the Med an American coast before meeting it's fate. More on this in this Sundays programme

A secret command post found underground using sonar. One of 3 the other 2 in London and Liverpool

American troops in Ireland 6 months before Pearl Harbour

Naval historians English and German giving expert views on the evidence being shown by the divers videos

Next programme Sunday 27th BBC2 or catch up on the iplayer

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Jimbuna
I mean't to say earlier thanks for your help.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

Hi Jimbuna
I mean't to say earlier thanks for your help.

No problem...your welcome.

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

U1003 type 7c is rammed unintensionally by a warship while at snorkel depth. Serious damage showing the observation scope flattened by the impact. The uboat survives despite being hunted by 14 warships.
Days later the captain makes an avoidable but catastrophic mistake and two thirds of his crew loose their lives. Bad judgement or did he panic?
A question from me. Why was the hydrophone operator not aware of this warship? Was the uboats engines interfering with the sound?

Sounds good to me! I will have to check it out. As for your question, the answer is, U-boats could not use their hydrophones while snorkeling due to their own propeller noise and the roar of the diesel engines. Most commanders would leave the observation scope up to watch for enemy ships to avoid surprises like that.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi The Dark Knight
Thanks for the information.
I have just had a look at the incident again on the BBC Iplayer. Archive records show it was rammed by a Canadian Escort but does not say at what time of day. Logic says at night time as neither saw each other. The conning tower is in a right mess, it's a wonder how they survived for 3 days on the sea bed while they were trying to make repairs. The open escape hatch shows that it was then scuttled. The crew taking to life rafts. 33 died and 16 survived. No mention of the Captain.
The historians reckon the Captain panicked and did not have a proper plan in place. It may just be that unforseen circumstances suddenly happened and they had to act quickly.
Best wishes Peter

[Henry Wood]

I watched the first episode and will see the last part soon on iPlayer. A couple of things intrigued me about the presentation - the "historian" presenting the programme made out that the two U-boat wrecks dived on were unknown up to that point and some mysteries would be solved. Yet full details have been on Uboat.net for a long time.

He also seemed to have some of the facts in the wrong order re U-1003: the numbers killed and saved were the opposite way around to what he told us. Also, there was no mystery about U-155. She was part of Operation Deadlight after the war so her whereabouts were definitely known, and she was first dived on in 2001.

A fairly good documentary but when I see "facts" like that which are so easily disprovable I do wonder just what is the BBC's agenda? They definitely do not make documentaries like they used to! (And that includes the background music which now seems an intrusive part of all documentaries.)

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Henry
It is annoying when you personally know that the facts are flawed,I was none the wiser probably like the majority, it was still a fascinating programme to watch. Episode two does not disappoint. Look out for the picture of all the subs docked. There is an absolute monster there and makes the others look like tin cans!
I would be interested also on your thoughts of this episode
Best wishes Peter

[Henry Wood]

Hi Peter and thanks for your reply.

I've just watched both programmes again, this time back-to-back to get the full picture. To me it is a bit of a curate's egg. My opinion still stands that modern made for TV documentaries are in large part a bit of a sham, for example, all of the "mystery" surrounding the "unknown" U-boats and their fates. It is all documented elsewhere, and also, I must admit I did not quite see the point of the diving team playing such a big part in the programme and hogging valuable screen time with oft repeated shots of divers diving or heading out to diving sites on their boat. The talk of the special chart being compiled by the lead diver to pinpoint all the wrecks was more bumph. These charts with the exact positions of all wrecks are already well documented.

That is not to say I did not enjoy large parts of the programmes, I did. The interviews of some of the elderly residents of Londonderry were fascinating as they revealed their memories. I have always found such remembrances to be very informative and they often lead me on to more reading. For example, I must admit I never knew of the huge part played by Londonderry until I watched these programmes as it is a city which does not seem to have had much mention in books covering the Battle of the Atlantic.

The masses of old photos taken by the very young Canadian sailor with his box camera were fascinating - if they were published in book form I'd buy it in an instant. And the interview with the two sisters watching the old films of their Dutch pilot father was truly emotional.

All in all a good programme which could have been great if I had seen less of the presenter etc. (And the infernal background music!)

The main faults I find with modern TV is the way that the presenters hog/dominate the screen for too much of the programme. This never used to happen. The jewel in the crown of TV documentaries was "The World At War", narrated by Olivier but not "presented" by him. Goodness knows how they would go about making such a comprehensive and lengthy series these days. It would probably take them five years to decide which famous face should appear on screen for most of the programme, together with their interminable arm and hand waving. (I've never met anyone in real life who acts like a TV presenter when speaking!)

Another old TV series I really enjoyed was "All Our Yesterdays" with Brian Aldiss. Simply cinema newsreels of what happened that week 25 years previously. IIRC, Aldiss simply sat on an armchair and introduced the various clips and the whole family never tired of watching them.

Well, just the thoughts of a grumpy old man who does not watch much TV at all these days. (First time I've had it switched on since the opening ceremony of the Olympics and I switched that off half way through!)

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Henry
Thanks for your interesting comments.
What were your thoughts on their comments regarding the type 21. Was it that close to making a difference or was it too little to late?

[Henry Wood]

A couple of years too late IMHO. Apart from anything else, if they had succeeded in turning out large numbers by somehow avoiding the Allied air bombardment of the construction yards, where on earth would they have found the officers and crews with the necessary experience to use the new boats to full effect?

After posting my previous lengthy reply I closed down all extraneous programs running on my desktop and clicked on the SH3 GWX shortcut which I have not done for a very long time. It is really eerie how a "game" (sorry all, a simulation!) can create a feeling of fear/excitement/I don't know what, starting in the pit of my stomach and leading to a breaking of sweat on my forehead. As soon as the first few bars of the theme played I was back onboard!

So far I have only refreshed my memory in the Naval Academy navigation course and I had forgotten some of the keyboard controls. Tonight's bed time reading will be the crib sheets listing the various controls etc I printed out years ago. I am going to try and get back to sea!

[THEBERBSTER]

Happy Hunting