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Old 09-05-2017, 09:29 PM   #1
Windward
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Default Is Attacking Ships in Port Too Easy?

I have come back to Silent Hunter after an eight year absence in which Iíve forgotten everything I learned the first time, so Iím essentially a newbie. Proof of that is how long it has taken me to understand how the TDC and PK work.

Iím playing on medium difficulty with Websterís GFO mod. On my second career mission I was ordered to insert someone near Qingdao. After doing that, I looked into Qingdao harbor and then sank three or four freighters and a subchaser with little challenge. I sank over 39,000 tons for the mission. For this I was awarded a Bronze Star and enough renown for a number of benefits, including SD radar.

Iím now on my third mission. Orders were to patrol near Hakkaido Island. I did that and then headed for the strait between Hakkaido and Honshu. I sank three freighters there and then decided to look into Aomori harbor. There were six freighters and two gunboats docked there. Having learned at Qingdao that gunboat fire is rarely accurate, I decided to attack with my deck gun. I sank four freighters and then used a torpedo to dispose of one pesky gunboat that manage to hit me, racking up a total of 18,400 tons in the harbor, to go with the 19,000 tons I had sunk in the strait. Then sonar picked up a convoy of six merchants and two warships approaching from the north at long range, so I left the harbor and headed north. There are still many hours of night and I have half of my torpedoes left (seven fore and one aft), so I expect to sink substantially more tonnage.

This success bothers me though. Harbors seem way too easy. In other computer games, Iíve always declined to exploit ďglichesĒ that allow players to exploit programming oversight in order to rack up unearned benefits like experience and money. Iím starting to feel like attacking harbors is in this category. Iím not sure I want to succeed in this way.

So, Iím interested in what others think. Iíd love to hear your opinions. Also, does this issue go away with some of the mega mods like Trigger Maru? I guess Iím seeking a balance between challenge and difficulty while I work my way up to higher difficulty levels and greater challenges.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:37 AM   #2
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I have come back to Silent Hunter after an eight year absence in which I’ve forgotten everything I learned the first time, so I’m essentially a newbie. Proof of that is how long it has taken me to understand how the TDC and PK work.

I’m playing on medium difficulty with Webster’s GFO mod. On my second career mission I was ordered to insert someone near Qingdao. After doing that, I looked into Qingdao harbor and then sank three or four freighters and a subchaser with little challenge. I sank over 39,000 tons for the mission. For this I was awarded a Bronze Star and enough renown for a number of benefits, including SD radar.

I’m now on my third mission. Orders were to patrol near Hakkaido Island. I did that and then headed for the strait between Hakkaido and Honshu. I sank three freighters there and then decided to look into Aomori harbor. There were six freighters and two gunboats docked there. Having learned at Qingdao that gunboat fire is rarely accurate, I decided to attack with my deck gun. I sank four freighters and then used a torpedo to dispose of one pesky gunboat that manage to hit me, racking up a total of 18,400 tons in the harbor, to go with the 19,000 tons I had sunk in the strait. Then sonar picked up a convoy of six merchants and two warships approaching from the north at long range, so I left the harbor and headed north. There are still many hours of night and I have half of my torpedoes left (seven fore and one aft), so I expect to sink substantially more tonnage.

This success bothers me though. Harbors seem way too easy. In other computer games, I’ve always declined to exploit “gliches” that allow players to exploit programming oversight in order to rack up unearned benefits like experience and money. I’m starting to feel like attacking harbors is in this category. I’m not sure I want to succeed in this way.

So, I’m interested in what others think. I’d love to hear your opinions. Also, does this issue go away with some of the mega mods like Trigger Maru? I guess I’m seeking a balance between challenge and difficulty while I work my way up to higher difficulty levels and greater challenges.

Hello Windward,

in the Traveller v2.6 TMO You will have more coastal guns securing the entries to some harbors (like in Iwo Jima), so trying to approach them on surface is a really bad idea. Moreover, previously unguarded harbors will have a warship assigned to patrolling it.

I don't know if You have the "Dud torpedoes" option enabled in SH4, but in the TMO 2.5 there is almost impossible to sank a stationary ship in harbor due to the depth keeping problems of MK 14 torpedoes in the early war. All my torpedoes went under the ship.

I always tried to avoid engaging enemy ships in shallow waters, especially convoys.
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Old 09-06-2017, 07:43 AM   #3
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its not necessarily 'too easy' because that depends on 1. how good the harbour patrols are and 2. how deep the water is. If a person has the setting on easy, then maybe it is. Mine are set on 'normal' and it can be hard.
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Old 09-06-2017, 08:53 AM   #4
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At first I would go into harbours because of the easy kills, but now I avoid them because no challenge.
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:07 AM   #5
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Thanks all. I'm going to follow james nix's approach and leave harbors alone. Now I'm off to attack that convoy approaching the harbor in the shallow waters of the bay (maybe).
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:31 AM   #6
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I occasionally go into harbours but only when bored, no targets etc.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:35 AM   #7
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Harbor raiding comes with a lot of negatives. First, they're easy in-easy out IF you don't encounter aircraft. Those guys can ruin your day in about five seconds. Second, ships which do no sink completely, but rest on the bottom with anything remaining above the water don't count as sunk. Third, if you're early in the war your torpedoes can run as much as 20' deeper than you set them. You can't sink a planet.

Then, the ports are much too lightly guarded. Sub nets are broken in SH4 so you won't see many of them. If someone adds them they're more trouble than they are worth.

Adding Traveller's Mod means you have to abandon GFO, load TMO 2.5 and RSRDC before adding Traveller's Mod. Traveller's Mod is full of really significant bugs that you'll not like at all. TMO is a great experience. I'm not hepped up on RSRDC, which removes the dynamic element from the game and substitutes history in a straitjacket.

That can be gamed a lot more than poorly guarded ports. If a town sent out a freighter a day for the entire war, you can sit outside that harbor and knock 'em down like ducks because they'll never change their war behavior, which was based on no sub outside the harbor entrance.

RSRDC becomes a silly farce when you think about their definition of "historical accuracy." In order for RSRDC's tape recording of history not to be laughable, YOU would also have to be a tape recording of the Allies, doing precisely what they did in the war with the exact same results. SH4 wouldn't be a game at that point, it would be a movie. You would not be a gamer, you would be a spectator.

The score is GFO:spectacular. TMO: spectacular. RSRDC:very flawed. Traveller's Mod:fatally flawed
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:56 AM   #8
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Thanks for the valuable insights, RR. I'll definitely go with TMO 2.5 once I get a little more experience.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Windward View Post
Thanks for the valuable insights, RR. I'll definitely go with TMO 2.5 once I get a little more experience.

Hello,

Trigger Maru Overhauled 2.5 is a great mod. The hardest part about it is probably the skilled escort, but i learned how to deal with them.


I recommend some tutorial videos about SH4 for beginners:

1) Manual targeting technique:



2) Sonar only attack technique:

(PART I)



(PART II)




I recommend also other mods that could be used together with TMO 2.5:

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4051 (Optical Targeting Correction);

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5238 (realism mod for US torpedoes);

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=3220 (Small fixes for the TMO 2.5 career);

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...do=file&id=517 (mod for US submarine's deck gun);

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=1820 (Restores all the stock map icons, silhouettes and
ship info lines to the Navigation and Attack maps);

- http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=4201 (more realistic depth charges damage).

I personally use all of them. You will only need to be careful with proper mod loading order in JGSME.

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Old 09-12-2017, 04:22 AM   #10
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How would you rate the difficulty when attacking ports compared to Silent Hunter 3?
Is it the same difference with mods, like TMO and GWX?
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:55 AM   #11
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Vaguely recall SH3, at a guess I would say SH4 is far more dangerous
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Old 10-15-2017, 04:48 PM   #12
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As it was once put to me, yes its a bit TOO easy, but later in the war skips had no choice as once we adopted German wolfpack tactics we essentially drove the Japanese merchant marine from the sea and raiding harbors was nearly the only alternative to going home empty handed (which eventually would see you benched by the navy btw...if you did it TOO often)
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Old 10-17-2017, 06:15 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammstein0991 View Post
As it was once put to me, yes its a bit TOO easy, but later in the war skips had no choice as once we adopted German wolfpack tactics we essentially drove the Japanese merchant marine from the sea and raiding harbors was nearly the only alternative to going home empty handed (which eventually would see you benched by the navy btw...if you did it TOO often)
In the beginning of the pacific war, many a good commander lost his command because the Admiral in Fremantle would not believe his beloved US technology could be broken. Senior officer intransigence manifested itself all over the US Forces. Most were very clever but some still lived in WW1, and tactically unshakeable. There were even some who still opposed the replacement of cavalry with the tank. We had a couple of idiots here in the UK too, but the powers that be soon fixed that.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:40 PM   #14
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Balao: just got mission to go to Rabaul to do a camera shhot. Went in and watched three destroyers patrolling, but were far away, and bay is deep enough to crawl at 300 most of the way. Got to camera point, actually just before, and went up and up scope. TWO lovely aircraft carriers just sitting there. So did photo shoot and then turned sub around (I had mk14s in rear tubes). back up slightly, let destroyed go their way again, and then fired 4 torps, 2 at each, all struck at 7000 yds and I waited but ships did not report sunk, so fired one each more and started to leave, both carriers sunk but too shallow to submerge. Nice easy day.
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