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Old 01-21-2008, 05:24 AM   #31
Ducimus
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Originally Posted by SS-18rider
Hey Ducimus...

There is on more film to add to your sticky:

Silent Service - Attackplans of WW2

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=8

Oh yes. Definatly a keeper.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:38 AM   #32
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This thread just keeps getting better and better, some really nice additions


RDP
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Old 01-22-2008, 10:18 AM   #33
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Maybe it's been posted already but I did not find reference to this in the forum.

The San Francisco Maritime National Park has a web page the includes an extensive training manual the describes WWII fleet submarine functionality. It was a publication made just after the war.

So if you enjoy reading about the main hyrdraulic and lubrication systems and standard watch routines of WWII fleet subs, take a look:

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/index.htm
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Old 01-24-2008, 01:15 PM   #34
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I'm surprised you couldn't find a reference here, as it is the standard title we all use anytime any question comes up.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:30 AM   #35
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Default To compliment the History Channel's torpedo show

I just finished reading the single best article I've ever read regarding the faulty torpedoes on the US Sub Vets of WWII website. Click the link and select "Faulty Ordinance to read the whole thing. I'll quote a small part of it:
Quote:
Perhaps Admiral Lockwood encapsulated the submariners' long frustration best when he suggested at a wartime conference in Washington that, "If the Bureau of Ordnance can't provide us with torpedoes that will hit and explode . . . then for God's sake, get the Bureau of Ships to design a boat hook with which we can rip the plates off a target's side." Although his submarines never had to resort to such measures, history has tended to overlook their early months of struggle, focusing instead on the final two years of their campaign.
What must never be forgotten is the fact that just over 50 years ago, submariners were forced to engage the enemy for 18 months with ordnance that proved to be at least 70 percent unreliable. Often, Japanese merchantmen would enter port with unexploded Mark XIV torpedoes thrust into their hulls.
Sounds like my occasional portrayals of Admiral Lockwood may not be far off the mark!
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:38 AM   #36
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The Head

I reproduce this in full from the newsletter of the USS Tinosa, the sub that blew the lid off the Mark 14 scandal. You wanted details about US sub operations, here you go. I apologize for all the nightmares you will experience over the next several weeks:
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The TINOSA BLATT

Volume I August 1980 Number 2
THE HEAD
by Paul Wittmer, Motor Machinist Mate
My favorite story is about an incident with the 500 gallon sanitary tank and the two associated toilets which were located in the aft end of the After Battery Room.

Some background explanations are in order for those who haven't seen or experienced the workings of these necessary devices. All facilities are located below the water line at all times, so getting rid of the waste materials required some special operations.
On a fleet type submarine of WWII vintage, there were three facilities located strategically; one single unit in the aft end of the boat, one single unit in the forward end of the boat and the double facility connected to a 500 gallon sanitary tank. The double toilets, showers and sinks were located in the After Battery Room next to the Forward Engine Room compartment. Also in the After Battery Room there was the cook's galley, with a sink and the larger scullery sink which drained into the 500 gallon tank. Also directly across an aisle from the two toilets, were some small sinks for washing faces and brushing the teeth. Behind the sinks were two shower stalls which also drained into the 500 gallon tank. These two toilet compartments had no swinging doors and when in use, one could observe anyone brushing his teeth or shaving. Of course, the showers were only in use every fifth day, again no doors were on these stalls. So the layout consisted of the upper half of a semicircular hull with two toilets facing the sinks and shower stalls located across an aisle way.

Now in this wash room, there were many small drawers located under the sinks for use of crew members to store their shaving gear, toothbrushes, etc.. Above the sinks, there were bundles of electrical cables and other piping as well as an oscillating electric fan used to circulate the damp air. There were never enough small drawers to accommodate the crew, so many men would tuck their toothbrush into a favorite spot among the electrical cables.

The two toilets at each end of the boat required a unique set of operations in order to use and discharge the waste to sea. There were valves and levers to be operated in the proper sequence, else one would truly regret his mistake. But this story is not about these two heads!
It's the 500 gallon tank that became most interesting one evening when I had the first below deck watch upon entering port.
While at sea, there are three duty sections with one section taking the watch at any one time. In port, one section will have the duty. The duty section must remain aboard, man the boat, stand the topside watches and the below decks watches. Only qualified men could stand the below decks watches. Each watch standee was armed with a 45 caliber automatic sidearm. While at sea, it was the responsibility of the Auxiliary Machinist Mate to discharge the 500 gallon sanitary tank by blowing the contents, using air pressure, to sea whenever it became necessary. When in port, this responsibility fell to the below decks watch standee. We came into port after a long war patrol at sea and the first watch fell to me. A check-off of the condition of each compartment revealed that the 500 gallon tank was nearly full and required immediate attention.

The operation of clearing this tank is usually not a problem. All the drains into the tank have to be closed. All the vents from the tank also have to be closed. The stainless steel toilet bowls each had a flapper valve operated by a lever on the side of each toilet. These flapper valves were about 4 inches in diameter loosely held in place by a linkage to the operating handle. Each flapper valve had a rubber type gasket to assure a seal. All was made ready to blow this tank to sea, the two flapper valves were closed and all other conditions were ready to apply air pressure to the contents of the tank.

The air control valves and gauges were located in the second shower stall against the Engine Room bulkhead. Pressure was applied, usually about 10 and not more than 20 pounds per square inch air pressure would cause the tank to be discharged while on the surface. Proper operation could be heard. This tank was capable of being discharged at maximum submerged depth also, so it was considered a high pressure tank.

On this occasion, nothing was happening when air was applied - - - something was wrong! I secured the system and called the Auxiliary Machinist who was tending this function for the past many weeks. It was my good buddy, Red who advised me, "Yeah, I know about that tank, someone must have flushed a rag into the tank during one of the field days. Let me help you".
If a rag or even a matchstick got into this tank it could jam one of the discharge valves.

Red and I set up the tank again and he got into the shower stall to operate the air controls, while I looked over his shoulder. Red put in 20 pounds, then 30 then 40 still no results, he boosted the pressure up to 90 pounds per square inch. That did it.

Either one or both of those four inch flapper valves with their rubber type gaskets just blew out. This was followed by four inch streams of sanitary waste which went directly up, hit the curve of the hull and followed this curve around where it dumped on the shower stalls, sinks, fan, toothbrushes and the two of us. It all happened fast. In a matter of seconds we were up to our ankles in you know what.

A standing rule aboard a submarine; if you make a mess, you are required to clean it up. We were drenched. Buckets of hot water were acquired and we doused the area. Then we went topside, threw our clothes over the side and I had to clean the gun, holster and belt. Red had to open the bonnets of the sea valves and remove the obstruction the next morning, a real nasty job.

After the incident, the Chief of the Boat put up a sign, "Don't use the toothbrushes, the S - - - hit the fan.
---end---

You may now go to lunch.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:46 AM   #37
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RR,

...after I take a dump ....biscuits and gravy for me please!

Great read! Thanks! Anything mechanical and sequenced I just eat up...no pun intended!
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins
Quote:
Often, Japanese merchantmen would enter port with unexploded Mark XIV torpedoes thrust into their hulls.
Sounds like my occasional portrayals of Admiral Lockwood may not be far off the mark!
The Japanese merchant shipping documents include the record of one ship that flooded and sank - after being hit by a torpedo that didn't explode!
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Old 01-25-2008, 03:32 PM   #39
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Well done.

This is the type of thing that should have been a part of the games original documentation. It would have answered alot of the 'noob' questions right off the bat.
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Old 01-25-2008, 10:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducimus
Another US submarine (whos name eludes me at the moment), endured a 48 hour depth charging before the escorts broke off its attack. The captain of this boat, with his sub low on batteries, and oxygen, was seriously considering surfacing and fighting with the deck gun. Thankfully the japanese destroyer broke off its attack before this plan of action was carried out.
I believe this was the USS Trigger, on a patrol November 1943 (correct me if I'm wrong on the date). There was a set of at least four, probably five destroyers depth charging for around 36 hours, from one evening, to the next evening, to the morning.

I read about it in the book "Submarine!" the passage goes something like this (can't get it exact, my friend is reading the book now):

"We have tried to go beneath the area where the water becomes much cooler, and so evade soundgear detection, but we've used up this 'velvet' long ago. The escorts have formed a tight ring around Trigger. We try to go through the hole in the ring, left by the last escort doing its depth charge run, but two more escorts always dart into place to fill the gap. We cannot go any deeper and we dare not increase speed, for fear of attracting a more accurate attack.

Sometimes instead of dropping their charges, they make a dry run, as if to say 'We know you're down there ol' boy. Might as well surface and get it over with.' We all know that there will come a point when our batteries are out and our O2 canisters are empty.
But we have a contingency in case of this event. Trigger will never surrender. We'll come up in the darkest hour of the night, all hands at the gun stations. It will be mighty dangerous for anything short of a full-fledged destroyer to get in our way.

...

Finally, a gap! Trigger darts through. They do not hear us.

Four hours later, we surfaced. Though the air was hot and humid, it did not bother us. After being in 124 degree heat for 36 hours it seems to be nothing but pure, undiluted Joy."

Good post, I feel like the US sub war in the Pacific doesn't get enough honor.

Last edited by The Fishlord; 01-26-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:42 PM   #41
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"Another US submarine (whos name eludes me at the moment), endured a 48 hour depth charging before the escorts broke off its attack. The captain of this boat, with his sub low on batteries, and oxygen, was seriously considering surfacing and fighting with the deck gun. Thankfully the japanese destroyer broke off its attack before this plan of action was carried out."

Could the submarine you're talking about be the USS Puffer? They were down, "...a record thirty seven hours and forty-five minutes." This was around August-December 1943. I found this information in Volume 1 of Silent Service by Clay Blair, pages 470-471.
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Old 02-23-2008, 08:57 AM   #42
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awesome read man, thanks for taking the time.
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:01 PM   #43
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I originally missed this post but I must say nicely written Ducimus!
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:26 PM   #44
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Default Hi there

Hello there, I'm new to SH but find it totally phenom. I like to think I'm fairly knowledgable about WW2 but never realise how much the US sub fleet endoured. You guys know your ****. I knew all about the atlantic war and the major battles in the pacific (midway, guadal canal etc.) but playing SH4 and reading your posts has made me research and it was pretty awful for the sub crews of the US fleet out there.

As I said Im knew to the game, does anyone have 1 particular tip that might help me progress?

Cheers Lofty!
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:29 PM   #45
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Hello there, I'm new to SH but find it totally phenom. I like to think I'm fairly knowledgable about WW2 but never realise how much the US sub fleet endoured. You guys know your ****. I knew all about the atlantic war and the major battles in the pacific (midway, guadal canal etc.) but playing SH4 and reading your posts has made me research and it was pretty awful for the sub crews of the US fleet out there.

As I said Im knew to the game, does anyone have 1 particular tip that might help me progress?

Cheers Lofty!
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