UK Politics Thread

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 98%
Jeremy Hunt 65%
Michael Gove 30%
Sajid Javid 5%
(% is my predictions so far)

ROUND FOUR KNOCKOUT 6PM THURSDAY..

DANGER ZONE
Sajid Javid
Michael Gove

[Jimbuna]

Sajid will drop out next making it an interesting contest between Hunt and Gove to be one half of the final two.

Hunt will go through and be beaten by Johnson.

Hammond will resign to be replaced by Sajid as Chancellor and we can all live happily ever after until the failure of Johnson to strike a new deal with the EU and the Tories will be toast at the next general election.

Not sure what will happen then for Steptoe because Farage and his minions will play a big role in who gets the keys to No10.

[Jimbuna]

More than 25 Labour MPs have written to Jeremy Corbyn to urge him not to go "full Remain" as the party reviews its stance on another Brexit referendum.

They warn another referendum would be "toxic" and empower the "populist right" in many Labour heartlands.

They call on the leadership to abandon their pursuit of a "perfect deal" and to back an agreement by 31 October.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48694223

The problem her for Steptoe is the fact that despite him being a lifelong Brexiteer the above are on 10% of his party which like the Tories are majority remainers.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Sajid will drop out next making it an interesting contest between Hunt and Gove to be one half of the final two.

As predicted, Sajid is out.

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 99%
Jeremy Hunt 50%
Michael Gove 55%
(% is my predictions so far)

ROUND FIVE KNOCKOUT 6PM THURSDAY..

Wow Gove is second after round four, well this will be interesting for tonight.

DANGER ZONE
Jeremy Hunt
Michael Gove

[Jimbuna]

Johnsons backers are already plotting for revenge on Gove.

[Jimbuna]

^ Could be they'll give a few votes to Hunt thereby denying Gove a second place and entry into the final postal ballot.

[mapuc]

Ain't it very exciting isn't it similar to watching the world cup in Football.

I presume it must be very nailbiting for you

Markus

[STEED]

Tory leadership candidates so far (Updated)

Boris Johnson 99%
Jeremy Hunt 1%
(% is my predictions so far)

Well there you have it, Bojo one step nearer to being the next PM.

The only good thing is Boris will seal his fate and it will all come crashing down. But that will result in a general election before the year is out.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Ain't it very exciting isn't it similar to watching the world cup in Football.

I presume it must be very nailbiting for you

Markus

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion unfold.

[Skybird]

As a foreigner, Hunt and Gove where the only names I could make at least a little sense of, beside Johnson. I would have expected Gove to go into the finals, but well.

[MGR1]

Conservative Home's devolution "expert" on that YouGov poll of Tory party members:

Henry Hill: This week’s polling highlights devolution’s threat to the Union

What I find are the two best comments from either viewpoint:

“Such an approach has an obvious problem, in that it requires those parts of the Union from which said fiscal transfers currently flow either not to think about it or, if they do, to adopt a much more existential (and therefore, highly asymmetrical) attitude towards the UK. Quite why the transparently mercenary attitude of the devo-maxers should engender such depth of feeling is, shall we say, non-obvious.”

I voted for Unionist parties consistently until this year. I bear no ill-will to my fellow Brits, and indeed the majority of my own family are English born-and-bred. I value the common history and common values which I have, for most of my life, believed to be at the heart of British national life.

And then I read statements like the one above and I have to ask: why are fiscal transfers necessary? Why are Scotland (and Wales and NI and Northern England) less economically successful, after centuries of direct control from London? If the answer is that Scotland is simply lazy and profligate, then I can hardly blame England for wanting rid of us. However, after over 300 years of Union, mostly governed from London, it is also valid to question the efficacy of that governance if it leaves swathes of its people subservient and dependent on the largesse of other regions.

For me though, this question has never been enough to loosen my attachment to my british heritage. And devolution certainly didn’t make me want independence. What has done so is Brexit. I grew up being told (and believing in my bones) that Scottish independence was illogical and destructive, a retrograde obsession with blood-and-soil. And yet, having voted for the British Union in the last Scottish referendum, I have witnessed the English nationalists successful campaign to remove us from Europe, preferably on term which are most destructive to all involved.

How is it possible to blame devolution for splitting the Union, when it is the Brexit debacle which has given rise to the most potent questions which harm the Union: Why is English nationalism good, but Scottish nationalism bad? And why should Scotland be content to be a junior partner in the British Union if England is not even content to be a leader of the European Union?

and

I would mildly suggest that the reason why many in England see the Union as disposable is that England has been seen by Westminster, from the late 90s devolutionary process onwards, as disposable. Not the slightest glimmer of recognition that equity in representation and self-determination might be factored in for England.

Worse still, from Prescott through Osborne, HMG’s policy has been to subdivide England into regional, manageable, administrative units. Being ignored is irksome but being attacked by means of divide and rule by HMG is cause for heightened displeasure.

Feeling included is rather important to joint enterprise. Feeling excluded leads to resentment and then paying for that exclusion to the exclusive advantage of inner London and the Celtic periphery leads to the indifference as revealed in the lead article. Where lies English loyalty to the Union? It’s a reciprocal process and HMG would seem to be oblivious to the consequences of its inactions.

Food for thought.

Mike.

[Catfish]

How is it possible to blame devolution for splitting the Union, when it is the Brexit debacle which has given rise to the most potent questions which harm the Union: Why is English nationalism good, but Scottish nationalism bad? And why should Scotland be content to be a junior partner in the British Union if England is not even content to be a leader of the European Union?

The oncoming sounds a bit negative, but i actually read some stuff about what England did before and during the colonial times, in Scotland.
And i have nothing against England, it just somehow tends to forget certain parts of its own history.

Scotland, your bloody foreign neighbours on the continent have never understood it. From England's subduction of scottish 'tribes' (not that England was so much more advanced at that time, or the countries of Europe for that matter), to England actually destroying any effort of Scotland to improve as a nation, the deforestation for building the english fleets, letting hords of sheep grazing the now empty landscape keeping any effort to reforest down, the disappropriation of scottish land owners, the displacement of people from their ancestral ground and heritage by destroying their economical base.. "all in the best interest" of course.

A lot of Scots had to move to England, became traders e.g. with tea or such (certainly depending on the english market now, and supporting it), while the people who stayed tried to make a living in a kept-down economy, some by smuggling, constantly under pressure by english customs and military. True until 1900 anyway.

And now brexit, this is really the topping.. Emphasis on We

[Catfish]

What is true is that english nationalism damages the union

"[...] there is genuine bafflement among English people when the Scots apply the same arguments as Brexiters used to justify leaving the EU to justify Scottish independence.[...]"

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a7635796.html

[Buddahaid]

It's just isolationism on a different focal lens and it is always a relevant position. Who will gain and who will diminish? Usually everybody loses save for a few prime actors who reap wealth from the struggle. Socialism is just another way of distributing wealth with no better outcome than capitalism. Who is your champion for the day?