Playable Class T type 1 submarine - 10 tubes -

[keltos01]

:rotfl:

why didn't they think of that huh ?

[keltos01]

it looks as though even the aa gunner is there now (version 1.6.2 with patch shown)

[SteveG75]

Nice work, I think you have just convinced me to buy SH4 (especially since I can't get SH3 to run on my new Vista 64 bit machine).

Your work is is beyond anything I could do and I am in awe. Don't take the inof below below as criticism, just as more info available on the T-Class.

Anyway, I was doing some research and found out that the Class T Group 2 had the amidships tubes firing to the rear. The Group 1 vessels had the 10 foward firing tubes (6 reloadable). During the war, most were refitted with the single aft tube at the stern. The Group 2 ships had the amidships tubes moved aft and pointed astern. Some of the group 1 vessels also had that mod done as well.

Here are some pics:

HMS TORBAY secured to a buoy in Plymouth Sound fitted with an external stern tube, 20mm Oerliken and radar (group1 with forward firing amidships tubes).


HMS TURBULENT on the outboard side, moored up to another T-Class. TURBULENT has the later tube configuration but the inboard vessel has the stern tube added, but the earlier amidships tubes.


Better pic of the aftfiring tubes:


Some good info here on the T-Class: http://home.cogeco.ca/~gchalcraft/sm/TClass.html but I got most of my info from the book Submarines of World War II published by the Naval Institue Press (1977).

One good point mentioned is that many boats of the second group were modified for employment in the Far East, by transforming several ballast tanks into fuel tanks, thereby increasing fuel load from 132 to 230 tons, and surface range from 8,000 to 11,000 miles at 10 knots. This increase in range, essential in a theatre where it took a week or more to get from base to operating area, together with increased stores capacity, enabled long patrols to be carried out: the record was achieved by Tantalus with 56 days, 40 of which were in the patrol area. Guess that would mean some kind of data file mod.

Also, I have read that the two Dutch boats were ex-HMS Talent and ex-HMS Tarn, both of the later design.

Like I said, this is not meant as criticism, just passing on more info.

[keltos01]

much appreciated

I have made an 11 tubes class T : the Zwaardvisch, which had one stern tube, two amidship firing aft and eight forward tubes :
v1.9.1_Hr_MS_Zwaardvisch_e.rar

I encountered the following problem : although I was able to implement the 11 tubes, the TBT does cause CTD on that model..

Version 1.6 of that mod doesn't have the extra stern tube, thus no TBT problem but has issues which have been resolved in the 1.9.1 version.

The sub displayed here has two versions : one with the early mast, version 1.6.1, and this one 1.6.2 with masts removed. The original mesh was made by JU_88, I just modified it (tubes, doors, added stuff..).

I didn't try to add the extra stern tube on this model until the TBT crashes to desktop is resolved, although I know that some had that extra tube fitted while retaining the 10 forward tubes.

a free book on the T class is available for download on my page as well :

http://files.filefront.com/wwwSTADTA.../fileinfo.html

you then have the choice between two types of class T, I personally like the 10 forward shooting tubes

though the Zwaardvisch isn't a bad one !

I set the range at 11000 for all boats I think, the earlier class portrayed here has a shallower diving depth due to its riveted design vs the later welded one.

keltos

[GerritJ9]

Regarding the "rotating 4 tube deck mounted torpedo launcher for 360 degree targeting", the Dutch K.XIV, O.19 and O.21 classes, plus O.16 (a one-off), had a rotating twin-tube mount installed in the deck casing forward of the conning tower . So it's not an original idea.

[keltos01]

Hi Gerritj9 ! nice to hear from you again
do you have any pictures of thoses subs ? blueprints maybe ?
might be a next project ???
keltos

[AntEater]

Pretty much every french submarine had such a set of rotating deck tubes, mostly because apparently their torpedoes did not work properly at large gyro angles.
The drawbacks of such rotating arrays are:
- hugely complicated machinery and very heavy, creates topweight and is prone to breakdowns and damage
- fully trained, it works like a rudder and the sub will have problems keeping course

I've always wondered why the dutch used them, as generally their subs were pretty "german" in design (no suprise as german design bureaus were active there).
Also, the dutch AFAIK used the german G7A torpedo, which had no such gyro problems as the french.

[SteveG75]

Only photo I could find of the O.21 on line. Notice the opening for the traversing torpedo tubes forward of the conning tower.


The book I use, Submarines of World War II by Erminio Bagnasco was published by the Naval Institue Press bt is out of print. Copies are still available via the Internet.
http://www.alibris.com/search/books/...ld%20War%20Two
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Sub.../9780870219627

[GerritJ9]

Keltos, I have small drawings of the O.19 and O.21 classes- longitudinal section plus several transverse cross-sections. These two classes were very similar, the only significant difference being the larger beam of the O.19 and O.20 to accommodate the mine tubes.
The K.XIV class and O.16 differed mainly in dimensions with O.19 and O.21, but the differences were not great- a matter of a few feet in length, a few inches in beam. The real differences were in internal equipment (O.16 and the K.XIVs had 8-cylinder MAN four-stroke diesels while the O.19s and O.21s had 7-cylinder Sulzer two-strokes for instance), plus in the percentage of welding which increased in each successive class; in O.16 the percentage was 49%. And, of course, the O.19s and O.21s were originally equipped with snuivers- O.19 was the world's first submarine with what later became known as the Schnorchel, though some sources credit O.16 with being the first.
Be happy to send you the drawings I have, but check with Denis469 first- I sent him the drawings last year and he may be working on them already. Would be a shame to duplicate any effort!

As an aside, our current deputy minister for health, Jet Bussemaker, is the granddaughter of the final commander of O.16, who was killed when O.16 was sunk by a Japanese mine in December 1941.

[keltos01]

what about torpedoes ? do you have any intel on those ?

I'll be on holidays for the next 10 days caving in france so don't expect anything till I return though...

Keltos

[Demon777]

Well, that's another great addition to the game. The only notice is that tubes' doors are a bit ugly, and rear antenna is not connected to the sub's hull. Also, when opening Museum in game menu, there's a bug with T-sub's deckgun position. But that's just all trifles in comparison with new career in T-sub!

As far as I tested, patch 1.6.2 solves the problem with game crashes and Balao tubes. At least I haven't encountered such problems yet...

[keltos01]

good news !
I have been playing the T lately, not my jap subs, and have enjoyed it a lot there in the philippines in dec 1941

keltos

[Demon777]

Keltos01, what do you think of using your T-sub alongside NSM4 mod? I've noticed that the only common file they both have is US_torpedoes, and now I wonder which mod should be installed last

[keltos01]

I use it as well, but install my mod last because the torpedoes are actually english torpedoes and american ones, the two types of mark 8 and 8**, to be sure you have the latest torp mod though download it on my ff page and install last.




keltos

mark VIII link :
http://files.filefront.com/v+20+Brit.../fileinfo.html

[Demon777]

Thanks Keltos!

I'll install T-sub mod in the same sequence as in your screenshot.
And english torpedoes are necessary for T-sub? I mean can T-sub use american ones correctly?