The LWAMI 3.11 Preview Thread

[Molon Labe]

I'm actually 5 missions into a campaign for LWAMI 3.11+. Hopefully it will be well-received... but I might have to add another mission after this "mystery missile launch" of the east coast. Maybe something along the lines of SeaQueen's strategic ASW... but in the Eastern Pacific...

A point that I've made before and feel I need to make again...

Forget about the stock campaign for now. 90% of missions for stock DW work with LWAMI. 99% of missions for earlier versions of LWAMI continue to work with newer versions. Just about anything you can grab off subguru's site, for all practical purposes, is a LWAMI mission.

Originally Posted by kgsuarez

A few moments later everyone freaks out and starts launching torpedoes at each other. So I sit there in the middle of the mayhem shaking my head and cancel the mission.
* * *
Short of that, do you all have any general tips/suggestions regarding this issue?

Honestly.... expect the AI to detect and engage each other sooner than you're accustomed to. It's really not so bad... I find it much preferable to them just sitting on their asses the whole time. I played the stock campaign with LWAMI last week, and I found it was easymode because my AI allies killed everyone for me.

[kgsuarez]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

I'm actually 5 missions into a campaign for LWAMI 3.11+. Hopefully it will be well-received... but I might have to add another mission after this "mystery missile launch" of the east coast. Maybe something along the lines of SeaQueen's strategic ASW... but in the Eastern Pacific...

That's great to hear. (The new campaign, I mean. That mystery missile has me slightly concerned.) I look forward to it, so long as I can drive my Akula.

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Forget about the stock campaign for now. 90% of missions for stock DW work with LWAMI. 99% of missions for earlier versions of LWAMI continue to work with newer versions. Just about anything you can grab off subguru's site, for all practical purposes, is a LWAMI mission.

Okay. Campaign is a no-go, but most single missions will work. That's good enough for me.

[Molon Labe]

I still managed to play through the stock campaign using LWAMI. And without having the TLAM problem in the north korea mission.

I can play through Bill's Red Storm Rising with LWAMI too, except for one mission, Race of the Cripples (there is a helo that has a waypoint right on top of the US subs, in stock DW that's not a big deal, but in LWAMI it's a MAD or even a visual detection).

Oh, and no there aren't any plans for Akula missions in the new campaign. FFG, 688I and P-3 so far. It's a US v. China campaign, US perspective, using a lot of the newer Chinese platforms that we added in 3.10.

[Seamutt]

This LWAMI mod really gives DW a step up by adding challenge and depth. Stock DW just annoys me now Here's a few suggestions for the next version. I'm not a programmer myself so I don't know what is implementable or not in this mod. Recently I've been mostly playing with the FFG to get a feel from the other perspective as surface ASW.

-Playing as FFG, could a helo visual identify surface vessals and buildings within a range of 1-2nm?
-Is it just me or is the FFG's passive sonar absolutely useless? I think it should pick up merchants and torpedos a little better.
-Someone has mentioned this before. The FFG has no active intercept and in the mod as in reality torpedos don't show up on active very well. Is it realistic to not have active intercept? I know a console can't be added for this, but is there anyway to get the information? perhaps directly to the NAVmap? This is one of things which is badly needed for the FFG.
-There are no sound returns in FFG's grams while the buoy is active. Is this a feature of LWAMI?

Here's some extra info which I hope can be provided with the next version of the manual (or sooner):
-how does the mk54 work better in littorals? How is it modeled compared to mk50?
-do we have torpedo sound level vs. speed info? It would be nice to know what is the optimal speed for the situation.

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Seamutt

This LWAMI mod really gives DW a step up by adding challenge and depth. Stock DW just annoys me now Here's a few suggestions for the next version. I'm not a programmer myself so I don't know what is implementable or not in this mod. Recently I've been mostly playing with the FFG to get a feel from the other perspective as surface ASW.

-Playing as FFG, could a helo visual identify surface vessals and buildings within a range of 1-2nm?

The next edition has all AI visual sensors reworked to have visual contacts occur at about the same range they would for a human operator. Pushing the detection envelope out should also push the identification range.

-Is it just me or is the FFG's passive sonar absolutely useless? I think it should pick up merchants and torpedos a little better.

It's not just you, it sucks.

-Someone has mentioned this before. The FFG has no active intercept and in the mod as in reality torpedos don't show up on active very well. Is it realistic to not have active intercept? I know a console can't be added for this, but is there anyway to get the information? perhaps directly to the NAVmap? This is one of things which is badly needed for the FFG.

I'm open to ideas, but I don't have any of my own.

-There are no sound returns in FFG's grams while the buoy is active. Is this a feature of LWAMI?

No.

Here's some extra info which I hope can be provided with the next version of the manual (or sooner):
-how does the mk54 work better in littorals? How is it modeled compared to mk50?

I would say that it's better for the littorals rather than that it works better in them. The Mk54 is not a deep diving weapon, but has a range advantage over the Mk50. I generally think of the Mk54 as a cheap weapon to use against SSKs or subs in shallow water, while the Mk50 is the Cadillac torpedo to send after high-performance SSNs in deep water. Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think the Mk54 doesn't go as deep when it splashes down.

-do we have torpedo sound level vs. speed info? It would be nice to know what is the optimal speed for the situation.

I'm not even sure sound-speed was ever changed from the way it was in stock DW. We did reduce base PSL, though. Anyway, I see a General Torpedo thrust set to +10, which means a torpedo at max speed is 10 points louder than one that's stationary. Considering even a "slow-running" torp is going to be on the high end of the scale, there isn't much stealth to be gained with lower speed settings, ceteris paribus. What does matter is torpedo type and cavitation. Cavitating = will be detected for sure. Monopropellant torps = will be detected also. A non-cavitating electric torpedo might be able to sneak up on someone.

[Lane]

M L,

Got any idea when 3.11 will be ready for release.
I think I will remove DWX RA 1.1 and install your 3.11.

Thanks for any info.

Lane

[Molon Labe]

Not really.

But I can give you two "signs of the apocalypse" to look for. One is Luftwolf actively getting involved in adapting the LWAMI 4 doctrines back to the main mod. The other is OneShot coming back from deployment.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Not really.

But I can give you two "signs of the apocalypse" to look for. One is Luftwolf actively getting involved in adapting the LWAMI 4 doctrines back to the main mod. The other is OneShot coming back from deployment.

Yea only two of the four horsemen are around right now, we are still waiting on Famine and Death to ride in...

[Seamutt]

The next edition has all AI visual sensors reworked to have visual contacts occur at about the same range they would for a human operator. Pushing the detection envelope out should also push the identification range.

Glad to hear. I was just testing what we have now on the FFG mission East Timor. It seems that the chopper IDs (hostile) and classifies the
hostile missle ships, but does not ID nor classify the yacht. I've noticed this before that sometimes it IDs/classifies contacts and sometimes
not. I'm linked with the helo and I've tried doing flybys with the setting on acoustic and also on radar (with REMRO on). Is there something
I'm missing here?

-Is it just me or is the FFG's passive sonar absolutely useless? I think it should pick up merchants and torpedos a little better. It's not just you, it sucks.

Yeah, Is there any plan to improve it or has it been realistically modeled this way?

Quote:
-Someone has mentioned this before. The FFG has no active intercept and in the mod as in reality torpedos don't show up on active very well. Is it realistic to not have active intercept? I know a console can't be added for this, but is there anyway to get the information? perhaps directly to the NAVmap? This is one of things which is badly needed for the FFG.
I'm open to ideas, but I don't have any of my own.

I have a couple ideas, but I don't know what we can do with the code so here goes.
-An active intercept would automatically show up as a passive sonar contact on the NAV map and be updated with every ping.
-Would it be possible for the torpedo to show up on the NAV map when it is within 1000-3000 yrds? Approximate position of a torpedo can be
deduced with active intercept so this would just be skipping the middle man and putting the info directly on the NAV map.

Quote:
-There are no sound returns in FFG's grams while the buoy is active. Is this a feature of LWAMI?
No.

Interesting. With Stock DW, there is audio. With finiteless' audio mod, there is audio. But with LWAMI there is no sound.

I would say that it's better for the littorals rather than that it works better in them. The Mk54 is not a deep diving weapon, but has a range advantage over the Mk50. I generally think of the Mk54 as a cheap weapon to use against SSKs or subs in shallow water, while the Mk50 is the Cadillac torpedo to send after high-performance SSNs in deep water. Also, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think the Mk54 doesn't go as deep when it splashes down.

Ok, good to know, we should check if that shallower splash down depth is true and model it if we can.

I'm not even sure sound-speed was ever changed from the way it was in stock DW. We did reduce base PSL, though. Anyway, I see a General Torpedo thrust set to +10, which means a torpedo at max speed is 10 points louder than one that's stationary. Considering even a "slow-running" torp is going to be on the high end of the scale, there isn't much stealth to be gained with lower speed settings, ceteris paribus. What does matter is torpedo type and cavitation. Cavitating = will be detected for sure. Monopropellant torps = will be detected also. A non-cavitating electric torpedo might be able to sneak up on someone.

Yeah good point. It's cavitation curve for speed vs. depth should be better than a sub's because the props on a torpedo are much much smaller and torps are more hydrodynamic with less extruding surfaces. But on the other hand i don't know how much vibration isolation there is between the motor and the frame and a smaller prop means faster rotation which = more cavitation potential. This information about the torp cavitation curve is most likely not accessable in DW. The cavitation curves for the subs were made by emperical testing.
And do torpedos operate the same way as in Jane's 688(i)? They run at set speed, then enable and only after finding a target they accelerate to
max speed? Now with LWAMI, the passive washes out at 45kts, does a passive torp still accelerate to max speed or remain at set speed?

[Molon Labe]

Originally Posted by Seamutt

Glad to hear. I was just testing what we have now on the FFG mission East Timor. It seems that the chopper IDs (hostile) and classifies the
hostile missle ships, but does not ID nor classify the yacht. I've noticed this before that sometimes it IDs/classifies contacts and sometimes
not. I'm linked with the helo and I've tried doing flybys with the setting on acoustic and also on radar (with REMRO on). Is there something
I'm missing here?

AI platforms don't report to the player what sensor they've detected a contact with. But the usual order for things on or above the surface is ESM, Radar, Passive Sonar, Visual. ESM and Passive can get you a classification before you get to visual. And you won't get ESM if that contact doesn't have a radar, if that radar is off, or if the radar doesn't cover the altitude the chopper is at.

Yeah, Is there any plan to improve it or has it been realistically modeled this way?

It's not realistically modeled, but there is no plan to improve it. As far as I know this is a problem with the interface, and trying to solve it in the database will cause other problems.

I have a couple ideas, but I don't know what we can do with the code so here goes.
-An active intercept would automatically show up as a passive sonar contact on the NAV map and be updated with every ping.

Won't work. Active sonar and active intercept have an inseparable relationship in the database.

-Would it be possible for the torpedo to show up on the NAV map when it is within 1000-3000 yrds? Approximate position of a torpedo can be
deduced with active intercept so this would just be skipping the middle man and putting the info directly on the NAV map.

Actually this could be done by allowing the visual sensor to detect objects underwater. But there wouldn't be any way to exclude passive/wakehoming torpedoes, submarines, mines, etc. so that's a no-go.

And do torpedos operate the same way as in Jane's 688(i)? They run at set speed, then enable and only after finding a target they accelerate to
max speed? Now with LWAMI, the passive washes out at 45kts, does a passive torp still accelerate to max speed or remain at set speed?

Damn, I feel rusty that I had to open up the doctrine file to answer this. Right now there are no speed changes in the doctrine in the 3-series. 4-series doctrines might be coming soon, so that could change. Even if it does, though, we won't program any acceleration into a passive torpedo that would wash it out.

[Molon Labe]

New Nimitz!!!

[XabbaRus]

can we get a different angle on the nimitz, loooks good.

[TLAM Strike]

[TLAM Strike]

Seaching the net I found a bunch of aircraft models, after making some textures LWAMI has some new MiGs now...


The new defenders of Mother Russia...


Oh and a few US jets...

[Hawk66]

looks great