RFB 2.0 first experience

[Threadfin]

I also posted this at SimHQ, but thought I would put it here as well.

Recently got back in to Silent Hunter after many years away, and because I recently re-read Silent Victory for the nth time I chose to go with SH4. I played one career with point-and-shoot targeting but after sinking half a million tons in 7 patrols I knew I needed to mod up to get a proper challenge.

Had a look about and decided to give Trigger Maru 2.5 a go. It is a fantastic mod, I like it very much, but the player detection is too much for me. Don't get me wrong, I love a stiff challenge, I'm the sort of player who loves spending hours evading at depth without externals, staring at the gauges and sweeping with the hydrophones, working the plot, calculating speeds, course, AoB -- essentially attempting to re-create the role of a sub skipper (and tracking party) as closely as I can. But I found it virtually impossible to avoid detection by 1944. For example I was assigned a patrol in the Bismarck Sea. Picked up a convoy -- 6 freighters with 3 escorts just northeast of Wewak. I was detected at about 4500 yards, submerged, silent, brief periscope exposures. OK. In two separate attacks I was able to eliminate the escorts, one sub chaser with a Cutie, one weaving, charging destroyer with a down the throat mag shot, and after pulling off and doing an end around, sunk the last escort a few hours later, leaving the convoy shorn of protection.

Did another end around and after a few hours I submerged 6 miles ahead to lay in wait. The convoy eventually hove in to view, and when they got to within about 4000 yards (2 miles!) the convoy detected me and began evading to the south. It's a bit much for me. Again, I don't mind a challenge, in fact I look for it. But the ability of the ships, and not just escorts, to detect my boat is greater than what I would expect, or want.

So that brings me to RFB 2.0. I installed it, along with RSRDC and several minor mods. Now, I've only done my first patrol for the Asiatic Force following Pearl Harbor, in Spearfish, assigned to patrol off Camrahn Bay. Made just one contact (still no surface search radar of course, or SD yet), a 5-ship convoy in column, with a leading and trailing destroyer escort, likely heading for Lingayen Gulf. I attempted to end around, keeping the convoy hull down, but it was bright daylight, no wind, just a blue bird day and we were spotted by the escorts at about 9000 yards as we made the surface dash to get ahead for a periscope attack.

Quickly pulled the plug and turned in on the convoy. The escorts closed the spot we submerged and began a search, but the time it took them to close, and our 7 knots submerged meant they were unable to detect me due to the distance we had moved from the point of submergence. It seemed perfectly realistic. In TMO these DDs would have been on me in no time.

With a bit of breathing room we closed the convoy's track. Due to all the above I was only able to get in position to have a crack at the last ship in line, a big 7000 ton 4-mast freighter. We had tracked them at 12 knots before being sighted, and now that they were zigging mildly we re-tracked them at 8.5. Got within 500 yards and fired all four bow tubes, for one hit, two duds, and not sure what happened to the other torpedo. Luckily, the one hit was critical, and the ship caught fire from bow to stern.

All this time the two escorts has given up looking for me and were closing the convoy. When the fish hit, they started pinging and found me. One of the 'realism/role playing' things I do in Silent Hunter is make trim dives. Of course it isn't necessary in the sim, but I do it anyway, mostly to keep track of the thermal layer. I knew it was at 150 feet. What I failed to do is take a sounding and promptly stuck my nose in the mud.

120 feet of water isn't much and they hounded me, taking turns making runs and dropping strings. Took some moderate damage which we were eventually able to repair, but that precluded silent running and we sought deeper water. With the map/chart I had to work with I had no idea where that would be, but reckoned my best bet was to head east. After a 3 hour evasion I finally found 180 feet of water, dropped below that layer and after a while they returned to their escort stations. One thing I noticed was toward the end of the evasion, the escorts had stopped dropping. They still made runs, but no cans fell. That is wonderful if the escorts can actually run out of DCs in a reasonable time. Is that a RFB thing? If so, great job!

After making repairs and surfacing I set course for Lingayen Gulf as I knew the Japanese would be making their landing on or about the 18th of December and I hoped to get in on it. But as we approached Manila, a message came in changing base to Java, and with just 1/3 of my bunkers still full of oil, I reluctantly turned for Surabaya and made it with just a bit to spare.

Overall it was a 2 week patrol that resulted in 4 torpedos fired, one big freighter sunk and a long, difficult evasion (brought on mainly due to my lack of awareness of the depth of water we were attacking in). But the overall sense of realism, of challenge and of authenticity was as good as any sub sim experience I have had, and I've played them all and for many years. Granted, it's a small sample of a single patrol and my view may shift, but I was very pleased with my first experience. I know Luke hangs out here and I just would like to say thanks and great work to all involved! I especially like the sinking mechanics.

One note, I noticed my first two patrol locations in Spearfish were historically accurate (patrol 2 to Makassar Strait), the same as the real Spearfish was assigned. Has SH4 always been this way, is it a RFB thing, or is it cosmic coincidence?

If anyone else here is, or was, using RFB 2.0, which compatible mods do you use or recommend? (and now that I reposted at Subsim I know the answer is yes, people here are using it!)

[Threadfin]

And as far as mod recommendations, I love maps. What would you say is your favorite map/chart mod compatible with RFB?

[merc4ulfate]

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
RFB_2.0
RFB_2.0_Patch_23April2010
RSRDC_RFB_V575
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Improved Ship Physics_1.1
Real Subs
EAXsoundsim_without_WebstersManeuver_STOCK_GFO_OM

[Threadfin]

Thanks. I installed the Nav Map Makeover 2.1 which appears to be the same map that's in TMO? Sorted there, but still open to suggestions if anyone prefers a different one.

Had to do the Address Array fix because I started getting CTDs when attempting to end the patrol, and sometimes when going to the bridge, and that fixed the issue.

In my second patrol I was assigned Makassar Strait as I mentioned, and developed but one contact, what I imagined was the invasion force for Java or Timor or Makassar City. Huge convoy, probably 20 or so ships with maybe 10 escorts. No way to accurately count them.

Slipped inside the starboard screen in very rough water and let go all tubes at overlapping freighters and got 5 hits I believe. Went deep to evade and thought I had come up empty, but over the next hour 4 ships went to the bottom. I really like the sinking mechanics, and the uncertainty that it fosters.

I was using the Improved Ship Physics, but wasn't sure if it would be compatible with RFB, but I see from the post above it is, so I will install that.

[Pooch]

I just installed this, also. I like the fact that Japanese destroyers aren't spotting me from Tokyo Bay anymore, when I'm still near Hawaii.
One thing I don't like, though. And it's enough to, possibly, make me uninstall. The bobbing from side to side seems excessive.
Now, I could be wrong. I've gone and watched some old WW2 sub footage, though. Scenes from movies and documentaries. I just don't see them heeling over so much. It's almost as though the boat is going to capsize. I realize that they weren't as sea worth as a battleship, but its like being on a cork.
Anyone else feel that way? Haven't seen any other posts mention it, so maybe its just me.
Is there a way to take it out and leave everything else in?

[Threadfin]

Ya know, in my first RFB patrol I saw the same thing. The destroyers especially were heeling over 30 degrees even in calm seas, but for whatever reason it stopped. I know, makes no sense (or I just don't understand) but there ya are. Try a second patrol and see if it stops.

I've now done about 10 patrols. Bagged a Furataka cruiser and a Fuso battleship in a single two-ended salvo on the western approach to Truk. I had been south of Truk hoping to pick up contacts on the Truk-Solomons route in fall of '42 while Guadalcanal raged. I use RSRDC so got a Fox that the IJN was shifting naval units to Truk from home waters and the date on which they should arrive. Shifted over to the western approach and made contact. By sheer luck I was positioned perfectly. Just had to submerge and wait.

I play at 100% with no external cameras and it was night so I never got a feel for the entire composition, but there were cruisers, battleships and destroyers, saw no carriers, probably 12-15 ships in all. I got to a point between the oncoming columns and planned to fire all 10 tubes (Gato class) at two targets. I tracked the task force at 14 knots (nomographs are genius) and positioned my sub 800 yards off the column in front and 1500 off the column aft.

It reminded me of the attacks by Darter and Dace in Palawan passage in the prelude to Leyte Gulf when one of skippers said, and I paraphrase, 'we will let these go by, they're only heavy cruisers'. Two cruisers passed ahead and another two behind. In the faint light though, I could see the 3rd ship in the forward column had the distinctive pagoda superstructure of a Japanese battleship. I would fire all 6 forward tubes at this ship and the four stern tubes at whichever ship was abreast in the aft column, which turned out to be the Furataka CA. Because the CA was further from my position, the stern tubes would be fired first, with the aim of having all torpedos arrive at the about same time.

I was a very tense wait as I expected to be detected at any moment, but the ships plowed on. I use a 'steady wire' firing technique, where I predict the point of firing, usually a 080 track (or 170 for stern) depending on the speed of the ships. That is, I place the wire steady, check the gyros, and wait for the ship to sail through the sight picture. For points of aim I will usually use the forward mast, stack and after mast, but every ship is different. This spreads the torpedos across the length of the ship, and in the case of speed or range errors, will usually result in 2 of the 3 fish finding the target. Of course here we would be shooting all torpedos.

So when the Furataka crossed the wire I began firing the stern tubes. Once all 4 were away I quickly spun the scope back to the Fuso, reversed the AoB, and reset the range. One thing I do not like about RFB is when clicking on the range dial it 'resets'. I cannot just move it a little like I could in TMO or stock. Are there keyboard shortcuts to adjust range? Adjusting range in RFB is rather cumbersome for some reason, or I am clicking on the dial in the wrong place. But got it sorted just in time and let go all forward tubes at the BB.

Then I started down. At least one hit in the cruiser, and several on the battleship, but quite frankly I don't know how many. And a few duds as well, as it's RFB afterall! The Fuso sank within 15 minutes, but the cruiser did not. Eventaully the escorts found us at 315 feet and dropped a few strings, rocking the boat but doing no damage. After a hour or so the DDs left and we returned to periscope depth expecting to find empty sea, but instead found the cruiser dead in the water. It took another 6 torpedos to send Furataka to the bottom because of duds, but eventually one exploded near the forward turret and we cleared the area post haste.

As for RFB 2.0 I am really enjoying it, but I am finding range and endurance an issue. I would always have endurance for minimum 60 days at sea, usually quite a bit longer, but in RFB i can just make 5 weeks out of SubPac. It's fine out of Brisbane or Fremantle, but from SubPac bases it isn't enough as I'm burning 35% enroute to say the South China Sea, and 35% back, leaving only 30% for patrol.

[Threadfin]

Another thing, as I can't be the only one.... Once each on the last two patrols I was cruising on the surface, no shallow water, no enemy near, and I suddenly get a message that stern tubes are damaged (and they are). They get fixed one by one, but only at the next radio message. Anyone seen this?

Using RSRDC, ISP and a map and environment mod.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Threadfin

Another thing, as I can't be the only one.... Once each on the last two patrols I was cruising on the surface, no shallow water, no enemy near, and I suddenly get a message that stern tubes are damaged (and they are). They get fixed one by one, but only at the next radio message. Anyone seen this?

Never heard of this.

Were you going at higher TC?

[Threadfin]

Yes indeed I was. I know that's generally considered a no no, but I was at high TC. Is it possible to be attacked without coming out of TC? My system runs the sim ultra smoothly, over 200 fps, but perhaps a bomb got dropped without radar or watch picking up a contact?

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by Threadfin

Yes indeed I was. I know that's generally considered a no no, but I was at high TC. Is it possible to be attacked without coming out of TC? My system runs the sim ultra smoothly, over 200 fps, but perhaps a bomb got dropped without radar or watch picking up a contact?

Sure it can happen, but depends on the AI settings of the mod. Early war without radar sometimes escorts will blast you out of the water before you get visuals, but more so with TMO. You should always get visuals on planes that will bring you to a default time, usually 8. Now, once you have a contact, if you crank up TC again, you won't get another on that one, so be careful using it after contact. Always be careful near places where shore guns could be, they'll blow you out of the water in seconds at high TC

[Threadfin]

Thanks. The first one happened enroute back to Midway, about 800 miles east of Lot's Wife. The second occurred about halfway between the Palaus and Truk so possible it was a plane, but probably not a shore based gun.

Another strange thing I had happen, and I don't know if it's due to RFB, but in early '44 I was offered a new command while in a Gato, took it, and ended up with a Tambor. Not exactly an upgrade!

[Armistead]

I never played RFB more than a few patrols and that was many years ago. They're numerous AI values including the environment settings. RFB should be easier as far as the ranges that you're spotted than TMO. I don't recall if RFB uses stock traffic or he reworked the traffic like TMO. You may want to try it with RSRD and that should give you correct bases, promotions and traffic.

Keep in mind the larger a plane is the further away your crew visuals and radar will pick it up.

RFB may be set different as far as TC, seems some mods don't default to real time upon radar contact, just give you the contact info block and sometimes by the time you get to real time...you're dead. Most simply hit one key for a compartment like F5 to get to default real time rather than beat on he TC minus key over and over.

The only thing that makes sense here would be a plane. If it happens again and u get damage, just stop where you are at real time for a bit and have a look around, wait and listen, if it's a plane it should be returning back.

[Threadfin]

Thanks, yes I am using RSRDC, and I just hit backspace to return to 1x TC.

Strange, but not fatal so I can live with it.

I started a new career in TMO to give that another shot. I really like RFB but I gotta say the range dial drives me nuts. It works very differently than TMO or stock. And the lack of endurance in a fleet boat is also an issue.

I will just use both mods, since JSME makes it so easy to switch back and forth. I like things about each, and TMO is overall the more polished one, and if I can get the hang of avoiding detection that will end up my go-to mod I believe.

[Sledgehammer427]

As for RFB 2.0 I am really enjoying it, but I am finding range and endurance an issue. I would always have endurance for minimum 60 days at sea, usually quite a bit longer, but in RFB i can just make 5 weeks out of SubPac. It's fine out of Brisbane or Fremantle, but from SubPac bases it isn't enough as I'm burning 35% enroute to say the South China Sea, and 35% back, leaving only 30% for patrol.

IRL the fleet boats would stop for a refuel at midway if they were heading for the home islands.

[Threadfin]

Yes of course, and this is out of Midway. Endurance/range in RFB is far less than TMO or stock in my experience. And that's why I wrote SubPac bases, meaning Pearl and Midway.

As for RFB 2.0 I am really enjoying it, but I am finding range and endurance an issue. I would always have endurance for minimum 60 days at sea, usually quite a bit longer, but in RFB i can just make 5 weeks out of SubPac. It's fine out of Brisbane or Fremantle, but from SubPac bases it isn't enough as I'm burning 35% enroute to say the South China Sea, and 35% back, leaving only 30% for patrol.