GWX3.0 - Enemy visual detection ranges

[banryu79]

Hello fellow kaleuns!
I was reading the "Patrol Guidelines" postend in the "Wolfes At War" site and considering to use as my personal guidelines in my games as they look to me very well thought out and potentially useful.

Link:
http://wolvesatwar.org/wiki/index.ph...ing_the_Convoy

In the section about the uboat aspect presentend to the enemy ship and how this affect enemy visual detection range in different daylight conditions I red this passage:

For BOW ON and clear day with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 4500
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 3300

For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and clear day with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 7400
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 6000


For BOW ON and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 1200
10 mps a ESCORT might NOT detected you <-- NOTE!


For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2800
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2000


Note that these are for ESCORTS, merchant ships are in comparison blind.

I do not undestand what the "mps" acronym (at least I think it is an acronym) stand for? Somebody who knows it can help me? I have the impression it could refer about sea condition, mybe wind speed, as it seems logical this aspect factor in visual conditions...

Also, and this is a question for the experienced kaleuns here, would you confirm or deny these values, based on you personal experience (with GWX or NYGM as a context)?

I am really intrested in knowing about these matters!

[Pisces]

I am not totally sure. But windspeed in meters per second makes the most sense. As that dictates the state of the waves, and is a big factor in your detection.

Own ship speed and target speed is usually in knots. 10 m(iles) per second would imply that, whatever the thing is that is moving, it is in (extremely) low orbit around the earth.

For comparison: 1 knot is 0.514 meters/ second. Or 1 meter/second is 1.94 knots, or just 2 to make it simple.

p.s. I have no idea if these values are correct. I never play chicken with destroyers. Or made records of distances when I was detected. Perhaps not very wise.

[captgeo]

mps=, is meter's per second

and thanks for that find, great info, just wonder if the SIM knows this?

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by captgeo

mps=, is meter's per second

and thanks for that find, great info, just wonder if the SIM knows this?

Stock SH3 no way, surely GWX mod is better in this regard; the question is: how much better? Hence my request for comments by experts.

I cannot speak for NYGM, I still have to try it or read about in the relevant forum sections, but I hope it also mitigate the sensor capabilities of the enemy AI in a way to permit (before radar) the conduction of sensible night surface attacks.

Again, how much the numbers quoted above are consistent with your personal experience? My only direct experience is as follow:
- night, clear sky with no moon, wind speed very low (4 or less), uboat at all stop with deck awash, uboat is pointing directly at enemy ship track (AoB 90°) so I'm presenting my uboat side to her.
- Contact at 8000 m., no problem.
- Contact start zig-zagging (along same course) at about 4200 m.

So I can relate the described situation with this one:

For BOW OFF (i.e. Side On) and a clear night with:
0 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2800
10 mps a ESCORT might detect you at around 2000
Note that these are for ESCORTS, merchant ships are in comparison blind.

But my contact is a merchant ship, and as it look likes not blind at all...

I need to compare others experiences, please post yours!

[Mittelwaechter]

This game is worth to replay due to these "factors of uncertainty".

Your speed, your targets speed, the sea state, the over all visibility, the experience of the target crew, your visual aspect, the targets equipment - plus a random multiplier or two...

Try a single mission with different settings (environment/speed/experience) and you'll see there is no fixed safe distance.


Stay as stealthy as possible and sink 'em all!

[Zosimus]

I figure if you can see him, then he can see you. Whether two locations can see each other is usually based on the height of each. A tall structure can be seen from far away, and if you stand on it you can see further. Whenever I encounter a ship, I immediately ask my watch officer for a range. Then I try to stay outside that range while I set myself up ahead of the target. With the 16 km atmosphere mod, you just stay 17 km away from the corvettes while going end around unless the visibility is limited.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Mittelwaechter

Try a single mission with different settings (environment/speed/experience) and you'll see there is no fixed safe distance.


Stay as stealthy as possible and sink 'em all!

Yeah mate, I already know all that and behave accordingly.
My intent here is to gather some data from other Kaleuns and digest it (along with my direct in-game experiences, of course) to develop a "better" feeling...

[Tupolev]

Enemy AI detection ranges are highly dependent on which mods you are using; especially environment mods.

The settings sim.cfg file are also a huge factor in enemy visual detection. I would say if you're curious about your aspect ratio and speed will effect it, take a look at the Enemy Surface Factor and Enemy Speed Factor under the Visual block.

WARNING: This could possibly be a spoiler for how you play the game. View at your own risk.

3X WARNING: I highly recommend not fiddling with any of these settings for your game (don't ask why I know this). The excellent modders who set those settings did so for a very, very, very good reason....

Anyway, for NYGM at least, both aspect and speed are HUGE in staying unnoticed. I've been able to get crazy (~1000m close to escorts even while they're alerted to me (torpedo impacts) minding my speed and staying bow/stern on. The sea state seems to be very much secondary to speed and aspect, though. A lot of my failed convoy approaches happen in rough seas, not calm, because I think I can go faster.

T

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by Tupolev

Enemy AI detection ranges are highly dependent on which mods you are using; especially environment mods.

The settings sim.cfg file are also a huge factor in enemy visual detection. I would say if you're curious about your aspect ratio and speed will effect it, take a look at the Enemy Surface Factor and Enemy Speed Factor under the Visual block.

WARNING: This could possibly be a spoiler for how you play the game. View at your own risk.

3X WARNING: I highly recommend not fiddling with any of these settings for your game (don't ask why I know this). The excellent modders who set those settings did so for a very, very, very good reason....

Anyway, for NYGM at least, both aspect and speed are HUGE in staying unnoticed. I've been able to get crazy (~1000m close to escorts even while they're alerted to me (torpedo impacts) minding my speed and staying bow/stern on. The sea state seems to be very much secondary to speed and aspect, though. A lot of my failed convoy approaches happen in rough seas, not calm, because I think I can go faster.

T

Thank you Tupolev, very nice remarks!
I had already understand that the values of the Enemy Surface factor/Enemy Speed Factor are a very sensistive area and is better to not touch them at all, that these values are setted how they are for a load of good reasons.

It is good for me to know that in NYGM the aspect/speed factor is so important. Thanks for sharing that.

[ParaHandy]

This is a really interesting read for me. I've just recently figured out that if I'm a perfect 90deg AOB on a convoy and I have their speed then the distances are irrelevant*. Until now I've always attacked submerged, as close to the convoy as possible but I'm going to start trying some surface attacks from a distance armed with my new found knowledge.

I'll report any findings Banryu

* I normally spent Maths periods hiding on the golf course next to my secondary school.

[banryu79]

Originally Posted by ParaHandy

This is a really interesting read for me. I've just recently figured out that if I'm a perfect 90deg AOB on a convoy and I have their speed then the distances are irrelevant*. Until now I've always attacked submerged, as close to the convoy as possible but I'm going to start trying some surface attacks from a distance armed with my new found knowledge.

I'll report any findings Banryu

* I normally spent Maths periods hiding on the golf course next to my secondary school.

Thank you mate!
Remeber, if you stay on surface: keep you bow (or aft) directly pointed at your target (or nearest escort) constantly steering your ship until your are near the correct heading for your 90° AoB attack. All of these with the slowest speed you can manage, this will minimize enemy detection probability.

I wait to hear you soon, good hunting Herr Kaleun!