US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[MaDef]

Originally Posted by vienna

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government? I have more than answered your past questions and comments and with good solid data; it would be only fair for you to answer just one of mine, if you actually can manage even that simple a task...

because it discombobulates at least 50% of of the U.S. population and 80% of Europe (who's opinions are really not as important as they wish they were.)

[Oberon]

Hey, we're within range of your nukes and if your economy falls over it'll screw us over, our opinion is valid too.

[Jimbuna]

The US federal appeals court has rejected the Trump administration's request to reinstate a travel ban blocked by a federal judge on Friday.
The late night ruling means the travel ban will remain suspended until the full case has been heard.
The court gave the White House and the states challenging it a deadline of Monday to present more arguments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38872680

[Oberon]

This would be a lot less damaging for Trump if he'd just stay off twitter rather than throwing a tantrum every time something goes wrong for him.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by vienna

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government?

That's a good question. Another would be how did this happen? Gaming the Electoral College vote is not the whole story. Some blame must be placed on the previous administration. "My name may not be on the ballot, but our progress is on the ballot,". When I was young and my brothers and I would get into trouble and blame each other my Mom would say "there's plenty of blame to go around".

An even better question is how can this be prevented in the future cause the case can be made that anybody can be President.

[Rockstar]

When I said Yates was doing her job, it was not an implicit negation of the ban; it was intended to express the belief the duty of any Cabinet member is not just to be a "rubber stamp" or a "Yes man". Cabinet members are there to advise the POTUS on their views as to the legality, practicality, or impact of a Presidential decision. There is nothing in the law commanding/demanding a Cabinet member to blindly and without objection obey or carry out what they deem to be an unlawful order.

Even the UCMJ makes obedience mandatory only, and explicitly, when an order is lawful. Barring any legal compulsion, any Cabinet member is free to express their views and opinions; and they're duty is not to defend the decisions of any President; their duty is solely to do what they swore to in their oath: support and defend the Constitution of the United States. The President of the United States is not the Constitution; the Constitution is the Constitution and it is far greater and more important than any President...

I know the UCMJ having had on occasion to stand tall before the man hat in hand to recieve punishment. I'll say this if I were to say "gee captain 'I think' thats an unlawful order" and then tell everyone under me not to follow it. I have a hard time believing any reasonable person would be surprised if I wasnt fired on the spot and thrown in the brig. Its one thing to have a differing opinion and suffer the consequences because of it. Its another to tell the captain no and on top of that send a memo to the rest of the crew expecting everyone else to follow me. Can you guess what that falls under in the UCMJ? In her case I think she screwed up by looking through the glasses of party politics rather than those of the Office she held. Instead of stepping down because of her firm belief that what she was expected to do was wrong. She just decided to not do it and sent out a memo expecting everyone else to follow her in defience. Bad move, real bad move and instead of retiring or stepping down with honor she got fired! She gets not one ounce of sympathy from me.

As far as the oath dont forget the second part of it. The part she refused to do that got her fired.

On the subject of Cabinet members dissenting from the views of the President, I would point to the recent confirmation hearings where not a few of the Cabinet nominees have expressed views and opinions contradicting Trump's own utterances and beliefs; are they to be denied their seat at the table?; or are they just lying just to get the job, because, if so, committing perjury under oath before Congress is very worrisome indeed...

Should Yates have resigned? Maybe yes, maybe no. She was on her way out the next day, anyway, and resigning would have been an empty act; if her desire was to underscore the perceived illegality of the Trump order, than she did what she thought best, and she was fired for it. What Trump did, on the other hand, was strategically and politically idiotic and symptomatic of the ails of the Trump administration: ill-thought-out actions followed by very poor execution. Those guys need to really do their homework and really need to know how to properly and successfully carry out a process. Right now it looks like a middle school team trying to play an NFL team...

It may have been idiotic, but it was not explicitly against the law. Had it been I confident both parties would have gotten out their torches and pitchforks and all hell would have by now broke loose. But as we see our system of government appears to be working. As lower court judges are begining to offer differing views shutting down the executive order. Eventually it may go to the final arbiter SCOTUS.

[Takeda Shingen]

We interrupt the mundane to bring you a few moments of brilliance.



We now return you to internet punditry, already in progress.

[Aktungbby]

[yubba]

Originally Posted by vienna

As for rambling, well, I would have thought you enjoyed rambling since your guy Trump is the undisputed King of Stream of Unconsciousness; the disarray of his speeches and addresses thus far have been a mess of starts and fits, unfinished sentences (much less thoughts) and irrelevant verbiage that seems to mirror his own mental disarray. Compared to Trump, even GW Bush is a Lincolnesque orator...

Trump won the Presidency because he and his cronies did what all the other candidates do: they game the Electoral College vote. It is just simple manipulation and has been going on for a long time. Sometimes the manipulations work and sometimes not: in 2012, Obama won 61.7% of the electoral vote in spite of the machinations of Cheney, Rove and other GOP operatives; I remember well the furious faces and words of Cheney and Rove in Election Night interviews when they realized their efforts had failed and failed badly. If you want to use the Electoral College vote as a measure of the strength of the winning candidate, in 2008, Obama had 67.8% of the Electoral votes, in 2012, Obama had 61.7% of the Electoral vote; in 2016, Trump had 56.5% of the Electoral vote; using Electoral college votes as the yardstick, Obama was a more successful candidate in both his runs for office than Trump; in addition Obama got over 50% of the popular vote in both his runs while Trump could only muster 46.0% of the popular vote, behind Clinton's 48.1% total. If you really want to use the Electoral College as being definitive, then Nixon in 1972, must have been areal popular candidate, loved by all, because he got a whopping 97.7% of the Electoral vote; his popular vote, running against a very weak DEM candidate (McGovern), got him 60.7% of the popular vote...

The fact does remain, however, that the majority of the actual votes cast by actual individual voters expressing their actual preference were cast against Trump; he couldn't even beat Clinton in the popular vote; the actual majority of the voting people have spoken: anyone but Trump. This explains why the Inauguration was so sparsely attended, even with free tickets. I know Little Donnie was really hurt that most of the people just didn't give a monkey's about his little soiree, but, hey, he should have expected it; he's just not popular and it is his fault alone...

About answering questions, I know I've been waiting a long time for you to actually give specific answers to specific questions posited by myself and any number of other participants on this forum, you know, answers with actual, specific, provable facts. Instead what you provide is poorly executed deflection and sputtering gibberish that you try to pass off as fact. If there really was any credible substance to your arguments, you would be able to better defend them than by running away and hiding behind trite regurgitations of the whacked theory of the week. Do some research, read some material from a viewpoint other than Hannity, Jones, Bannon, et al. At least the others who post here do try to support their arguments with substance rather than slime.For them, even if I might agree with some of their views, I have solid respect; for you, not so much...

I going to ask you a question and I would like you to give a serious, specific answer: Why should any reasonable American citizen put their trust and confidence in a petty, lying egoist who has demonstrated not even the least ability to even adequately manage not just his own behavior and impulses but, worse, not even the management of the US government? I have more than answered your past questions and comments and with good solid data; it would be only fair for you to answer just one of mine, if you actually can manage even that simple a task...




<O>

Really,,, look at all that jibberish, I did answer your well craft questions,, you couldn't accept the answers,,the woman was white because she was,, you wanted to race bait me,, funny thing Obama's TSA spent more time searching white people because they didn't want to look racist how about that for an answer. . and if Hillary wasn't a lying murderous,, bribe taken snake in the grass that sold us out to the highest bidder while she was in office,, and had the balls to lie over flag draped coffins of the Americans she let die,she might have done better,, again I ask what lies of Trump,, he seems to be doing all the things he said he would and more.. If I were you I wouldn't cry about the popular vote because that is going to come back and bite you in the torpedo tube with all the voter fraud and trust me they'll find it.The Associated Press finds that Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump,” the article says.that my friend is a land slide or is the AP not creditable to your standards. The Russians hacked the election now that's rich,, if they did anything they exposed who the democrats truely are,, Commie comes to mind.. I am truely touched that you are willing to defend the constitution when in your heart you don't believe in it..

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by MaDef

because it discombobulates at least 50% of of the U.S. population and 80% of Europe (who's opinions are really not as important as they wish they were.)

Originally Posted by Oberon

Hey, we're within range of your nukes and if your economy falls over it'll screw us over, our opinion is valid too.

Originally Posted by u crank

An even better question is how can this be prevented in the future cause the case can be made that anybody can be President.

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

We interrupt the mundane to bring you a few moments of brilliance. We now return you to internet punditry, already in progress.

Originally Posted by yubba

Really,,, look at all that jibberish,, I did answer your well craft questions....

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by yubba

Really,,, look at all that jibberish

Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,look ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by yubba

The Associated Press finds that Clinton won 487 counties nationwide, compared with 2,626 for President-elect Donald Trump,” the article says.that my friend is a land slide or is the AP not creditable to your standards.

Look up "population density", you might learn something new.

[Rockstar]

What the Donald needs to learn is he is nolonger running his own company he just cant command others to do his bidding. As president he needs to learn how to persuade.

Also too, all things considered I think our court system is working just fine. What I find astonishing is the tantrums a sitting president is going on about on twitter because he didnt get his way. “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril,” Trump wrote. “If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!”

disagrees...

Somebody should find that sign and put it back on the presidents desk.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

What the Donald needs to learn is he is nolonger running his own company he just cant command others to do his bidding. As president he needs to learn how to persuade others.

He has a long road to walk before he wakes up to that fact. Question is will he wake up and learn this or continual to choose to think he is still running a company.

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Yes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,look ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,