Flank speed below the layer

Halcyon · 08-30-17, 10:33 PM

I engaged a surface group that had 4 merchants and 4 escorts (Kara, 2 Kashins and an Udaloy).
The layer was about 200 feet and strong, with a very strong surface duct, so I went to 900 feet and ran at flank speed to try and close the distance to the group so I could shoot my torps.

I barely went 4,000 yards before I got ranged by an active sonar and then torps and later the depth charges started raining down. When they first shot at me, they were at least 10,000 yards away.

I thought a strong layer means all the sound bounces back down?
How are you supposed to use strong or higher layers if surface ships can hear you through it?

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 08-31-17, 12:37 AM

I'll give you two reasons ... those ships have VDS, and also you were doing almost everything BUT cavitating to get yourself detected. This game already gives you positive indications of exactly when you'll get detected!

EnjoyableSTIG · 08-31-17, 11:47 AM

"This game already gives you positive indications of exactly when you'll get detected!"

WHAT??? Are you talking about the sensors tab indicating the enemies detection numbers? (+-50?)

Napalm42 · 08-31-17, 02:32 PM

To break it down:

1. A strong layer reflects A LOT of sound, but not all of it. The only way you'd be near undetectable is if you were in the shadow zone (approx. 30 feet below the layer), however you would not be able to detect them either here.

2. The faster you go, the more noise you make. Even without cavitation this is always true. You also deafen yourself as the rush of passing water makes your sensors less accurate. If you also present a wide aspect (e.g. your side) to a ship that's pinging active, you will be detected.

3. Yes, if you look at the signature panel, you will see numbers when you ID a ship, just below the "ownship" detection stats.

These values, ranging from -50 to 50 are how well an enemy vessel can detect you on that sensor. You always want to be at zero or below. My rule of thumb is to never exceed 8. At any positive signature, you are being detected, however the detection may not be strong or ideal.

If you're blasting into a guy at 30 knots and he so much as catches a whiff of you, escorts will start to attack no matter what. Pay attention to how the convoy reacts, if they start turning hard away from you and gunning it, you've been detected.

08-30-17, 10:33 PM	#1
Halcyon Helmsman Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 106 Downloads: 104 Uploads: 3	Flank speed below the layer I engaged a surface group that had 4 merchants and 4 escorts (Kara, 2 Kashins and an Udaloy). The layer was about 200 feet and strong, with a very strong surface duct, so I went to 900 feet and ran at flank speed to try and close the distance to the group so I could shoot my torps. I barely went 4,000 yards before I got ranged by an active sonar and then torps and later the depth charges started raining down. When they first shot at me, they were at least 10,000 yards away. I thought a strong layer means all the sound bounces back down? How are you supposed to use strong or higher layers if surface ships can hear you through it?

08-31-17, 12:37 AM	#2
Kazuaki Shimazaki II Ace of the Deep Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,140 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'll give you two reasons ... those ships have VDS, and also you were doing almost everything BUT cavitating to get yourself detected. This game already gives you positive indications of exactly when you'll get detected!

08-31-17, 11:47 AM	#3
EnjoyableSTIG Seaman Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: USA Posts: 40 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	"This game already gives you positive indications of exactly when you'll get detected!" WHAT??? Are you talking about the sensors tab indicating the enemies detection numbers? (+-50?)

08-31-17, 02:32 PM	#4
Napalm42 Watch Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 19 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	To break it down: 1. A strong layer reflects A LOT of sound, but not all of it. The only way you'd be near undetectable is if you were in the shadow zone (approx. 30 feet below the layer), however you would not be able to detect them either here. 2. The faster you go, the more noise you make. Even without cavitation this is always true. You also deafen yourself as the rush of passing water makes your sensors less accurate. If you also present a wide aspect (e.g. your side) to a ship that's pinging active, you will be detected. 3. Yes, if you look at the signature panel, you will see numbers when you ID a ship, just below the "ownship" detection stats. These values, ranging from -50 to 50 are how well an enemy vessel can detect you on that sensor. You always want to be at zero or below. My rule of thumb is to never exceed 8. At any positive signature, you are being detected, however the detection may not be strong or ideal. If you're blasting into a guy at 30 knots and he so much as catches a whiff of you, escorts will start to attack no matter what. Pay attention to how the convoy reacts, if they start turning hard away from you and gunning it, you've been detected.