GWX (Grey Wolves eXpansion Mod) - Page 327

Radio · 11-09-09, 10:52 PM

WOAHWOAHWOAH I'm a bit confused about (and really frustrated by) the difficulty level in GWX 3.0.

My sub (Type VII) was sitting in 30 meters depth 10 km south of the harbour of Plymouth and rigged for silent running, heavy sea, heavy rain.
2 small armed harbour ships pass by at 10 km distance. Suddenly they stop, head directly into my direction and throw depth charges and sink me.
Early 39 btw.

----

Another game, early 39, Type II boat this time, slightly below periscope depth, rigged for silent running, no periscope usage. A convoy passes by at 5 km distance. A destroyer at the far north of the convoy stops, charges into my direction, throws depth charges, sinks me.

----

Another game. Again early 39. Type II again, surfaced (!), sitting in the harbour of Dover at night. Nothing happens as they do not see me, i go to periscope depth. Rig for silent running. 2 small armed harbour ships suddenly come into my direction (after the boat is submerged for some time), depth charges, death.

--

I am no sissy, but this is WAY too much. It's like playing a game of Russian roulette with a loaded HMG. Is there a way to tone the difficulty down to a more believable level? I like a challenge but telepathic, precision guided, instakill depth charges thrown by super ships from hell are.. well.... a little bit too much imho. Especially in 1939. If the real U-Boat warfare would have been that difficult, Germany would have surrendered by early winter 39

Mods installed:

-GWX 3.0
-GWX Enhanced Damage effects
-LifeBoats_and debris_v4 for GWX 3.0

Venatore · 11-09-09, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio

I'm a bit confused about (and really frustrated by) the difficulty level in GWX 3.0.

Radio,

Why the hell are you stalking harbors

Why the hell are you operating in shallow waters

GWX 3.0 is in fact challenging but very very achievable. I combine GWX with WaW for a extreme experience. When I get my WaW BDU orders issued I study the area of operations that I'm assigned, I sector off sections of my patrol route that I consider to be U-boat graveyards. Never ever put your crew your U-boat in a scenario where your actions-on are restricted, for example; 10km outside of harbors and shallow waters of say 30m.

Many SHIII players die and get frustrated with how they died. Did you have deep water to maneuver

choose your engagement areas wisely, have actions-on for scenarios and for god sake don't get bloody greedy.

Think like a U-boat commander

If your command appreciation is to stalk enemy harbors utilizing shallow waters as your method of stealth ...... if I was a crew member on your U-boat ....... I would be asking for a transfer

Radio · 11-09-09, 11:35 PM

I was careful to the extreme! And I was not even moving. Zero knots. Nothing.

Especially the convoy attack was frustrating: I was in a superb position, all I had to do was to wait for the convoy to arrive. I was rigged for silent running below periscope depth and did not even think into the direction of the convoy in fear of being detected.

And still the destroyer came from 10 kilometres away directly to my position and depth charged me??? Achievable? nope.

Same for the Type VII thing: I did not even enter the harbour (as I was afraid because of the ^other cases) but lay totally quiet 20 kilometres to the south west and only tried to figure out the paths the ships take in and out by passively listening. In silent running mode, at below periscope depth. I had sneaked into that position submerged.

And woosh, the PSI-ASW-Squad arrives and depth charges me with not 1 cm inaccuracy. This is simply not possible. There has to be a bug or a typo in the sensor files.Trust me i can differentiate between a hard game and a bug.

Venatore · 11-10-09, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radio

Trust me i can differentiate between a hard game and a bug.

Radio,

I've never experienced what your saying and I use GWX 3.0 exclusively. Don't think that remaining still & silent will achieve some sort of cloak of invisibility over your U-boat.

Try Running slow & silent (1 knot); when within sight of an enemy destroyer/vessel try to remain close to the surface (17 meters) in anything but the calmest of seas this will also hide you from the enemy's sensors. But if you are pinged/compromised, descend deep, deploy BOLD canisters at flank and transition to slow passing 100-120 meters, you'll live longer, once at your extreme depth reduce to 1 knot silent running. Depth reduces the effectiveness of sonar. The deeper the U-boat, the more difficult it is to locate.

There are several occasions when an escort will lose contact with a submerged U-boat. During the explosion of a depth charge, an intermittent blackout occurs, deafening the pursuer’s listening devices until they calibrate themselves. When the escort passes directly above a submerged U-boat, both sonar and hydrophone contacts are lost.

Without getting into a robust discussion, I'm sorry my friend but I would have to disagree with you on your comments.

Kind Regards

Venatore

Radio · 11-10-09, 12:20 AM

Hm, I know all those tactics and played the whole Silent Hunter Series beginning from part 1 back in the DOS ages. And i believe you if you say that you never experienced anything like that, because:

I think i found the reason for the problems -> I did not use a fresh installation (like the GWX readme recommends) and found some edited files that seem to be leftovers from another mod. I will do a complete deinstallation of SH3 and GWX and then reinstall them both.

Before i realized that I had made another tests series and I was "auto" detected as soon as my boat was in a certain radius of a harbour AND Submerged. If staying surfaced nothing happened until I opened fire or was seen. I guess that's a sure sign of a bug/mod conflict.

Thanks Venatore!

Venatore · 11-10-09, 01:49 AM

Good sailing my friend

Radio · 11-10-09, 02:39 AM

Thanks again! Reinstalled and everything is ok. I even loaded the old savegame and tested: Now the sub wasn't detected until I made them detect me. And even then i was able to sneak away (after getting some depth charges).

Sorry for not following the readme instructions in the first place....

Kpt. Lehmann · 11-10-09, 03:00 AM

Hi Radio,

As the guy responsible for modification of the sensors in GWX, I can assure you that NO underwater sensor (neither hydrophonic or active sonar) can reach anywhere near 10 km. The sensor modifications and damage models in GWX are by far, two of the most heavily tested elements in GWX.

Enemy watch crews (visual sensors) can indeed see farther than 10 km dependant on crew quality and atmospheric conditions/sea state.

In rough seas and shallow water, which you appear to have been operating in, your conning tower has a tendancy to broach the surface. It is a large enough object... that if it is spotted by a competent crew while you are in shallow water...

... you are as good as dead... early war or late war doesn't matter.

Furthermore, any enemy unit spotting you will "call" any and all available allied anti-submarine assets to assist in the destruction of your sub.

Stay out of shallow water. Many crews and U-boats perished early in the war. It starts tough... and gets tougher... as in-line with history as we could make it within the limitations of the game.

Radio · 11-11-09, 02:25 PM

Thanks, will stay out of the shallow water.

The re-installation seems to have rectified the difficulty problems. I do not know what file or mod caused the problems, but they are solved.

Jimbuna · 11-11-09, 05:26 PM

Good to learn your sorted

There is one simple rule nobody has advised you of thus far:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!

Venatore · 11-11-09, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbuna

Good to learn your sorted

There is one simple rule nobody has advised you of thus far:

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!!

Radio · 11-12-09, 01:10 PM

Ok will try to follow your advice!

After reading it for so many times that radio message is starting to have a counter-productive effect on me, though. Every time I read it i feel so... inferior

As a small tribute to all of you guys here a screenshot of my worst enemies so far, those boats are like bulldogs and are so small that they are not worth a torpedo.

GWX rocks!

Weiss Pinguin · 11-12-09, 01:21 PM

In my opinion any ship that attacks me is worth at least 1 badly aimed torpedo.

Commander Gizmo · 11-12-09, 01:27 PM

That's nothing Radio. Have you ever tried to sink a tug boat or S class? You need a battle cruiser just to get started.

Radio · 11-12-09, 04:49 PM

@Commander Gizmo: I sank some Sampans in SH4, does that count?

----

My bad luck doesn't leave me (Or better doesn't leave "Kurt von Zollern", my Ex-Kaleun). After a quiet patrol with no detected enemy he managed to sink a Freighter, but needed 3 of the 5 torpedoes on board, the first detonated too early and one torpedo alone couldn't sink the enemy ship, so another torpedo was needed. Then one of ^those boats attacked the sub, but luckily U-17 (with the "lucky Pig" emblem) could sneak away unharmed. After a long and uneventful way home my game seems to have become somewhat corrupted (it is the career I started with the faulty installation) and instead of Kiel my ship docked in Laboe Memorial (!!!) suddenly had a stowaway on board (!!!) and when i tried to launch the mission to return to Kiel the boat collided with something and all were killed (!!!). I tried to save what was left from the patrol, deleted the All-Killed-Save-slot hoping that SH3commander could repair my Laboe autosave but nope, only an error.

Okokok, sometimes life shows you clearly that some things are not wanted, I guess Kurt von Zollern's career is one of those things.

Started a new career from scratch now. "Peter Hasenberg" in his U-54 Type VII. Let's hope he has more luck than his comerade.

I do miss my Type II boat, though, I think I will make another career for that as well... Maybe Kurt's brother....

Lesson learned: Always save directly BEFORE entering the harbour...

Here a picture of the 3-torpedo-freighter mentioned above:

11-09-09, 10:52 PM	#4891
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	WOAHWOAHWOAH I'm a bit confused about (and really frustrated by) the difficulty level in GWX 3.0. My sub (Type VII) was sitting in 30 meters depth 10 km south of the harbour of Plymouth and rigged for silent running, heavy sea, heavy rain. 2 small armed harbour ships pass by at 10 km distance. Suddenly they stop, head directly into my direction and throw depth charges and sink me. Early 39 btw. ---- Another game, early 39, Type II boat this time, slightly below periscope depth, rigged for silent running, no periscope usage. A convoy passes by at 5 km distance. A destroyer at the far north of the convoy stops, charges into my direction, throws depth charges, sinks me. ---- Another game. Again early 39. Type II again, surfaced (!), sitting in the harbour of Dover at night. Nothing happens as they do not see me, i go to periscope depth. Rig for silent running. 2 small armed harbour ships suddenly come into my direction (after the boat is submerged for some time), depth charges, death. -- I am no sissy, but this is WAY too much. It's like playing a game of Russian roulette with a loaded HMG. Is there a way to tone the difficulty down to a more believable level? I like a challenge but telepathic, precision guided, instakill depth charges thrown by super ships from hell are.. well.... a little bit too much imho. Especially in 1939. If the real U-Boat warfare would have been that difficult, Germany would have surrendered by early winter 39 Mods installed: -GWX 3.0 -GWX Enhanced Damage effects -LifeBoats_and debris_v4 for GWX 3.0 __________________ Last edited by Radio; 11-09-09 at 11:04 PM.

11-09-09, 11:35 PM	#4893
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	I was careful to the extreme! And I was not even moving. Zero knots. Nothing. Especially the convoy attack was frustrating: I was in a superb position, all I had to do was to wait for the convoy to arrive. I was rigged for silent running below periscope depth and did not even think into the direction of the convoy in fear of being detected. And still the destroyer came from 10 kilometres away directly to my position and depth charged me??? Achievable? nope. Same for the Type VII thing: I did not even enter the harbour (as I was afraid because of the ^other cases) but lay totally quiet 20 kilometres to the south west and only tried to figure out the paths the ships take in and out by passively listening. In silent running mode, at below periscope depth. I had sneaked into that position submerged. And woosh, the PSI-ASW-Squad arrives and depth charges me with not 1 cm inaccuracy. This is simply not possible. There has to be a bug or a typo in the sensor files.Trust me i can differentiate between a hard game and a bug. __________________

11-10-09, 12:20 AM	#4895
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	Hm, I know all those tactics and played the whole Silent Hunter Series beginning from part 1 back in the DOS ages. And i believe you if you say that you never experienced anything like that, because: I think i found the reason for the problems -> I did not use a fresh installation (like the GWX readme recommends) and found some edited files that seem to be leftovers from another mod. I will do a complete deinstallation of SH3 and GWX and then reinstall them both. Before i realized that I had made another tests series and I was "auto" detected as soon as my boat was in a certain radius of a harbour AND Submerged. If staying surfaced nothing happened until I opened fire or was seen. I guess that's a sure sign of a bug/mod conflict. Thanks Venatore! __________________

11-10-09, 02:39 AM	#4897
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	Thanks again! Reinstalled and everything is ok. I even loaded the old savegame and tested: Now the sub wasn't detected until I made them detect me. And even then i was able to sneak away (after getting some depth charges). Sorry for not following the readme instructions in the first place.... __________________

11-10-09, 03:00 AM	#4898
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,875 Downloads: 115 Uploads: 0	Hi Radio, As the guy responsible for modification of the sensors in GWX, I can assure you that NO underwater sensor (neither hydrophonic or active sonar) can reach anywhere near 10 km. The sensor modifications and damage models in GWX are by far, two of the most heavily tested elements in GWX. Enemy watch crews (visual sensors) can indeed see farther than 10 km dependant on crew quality and atmospheric conditions/sea state. In rough seas and shallow water, which you appear to have been operating in, your conning tower has a tendancy to broach the surface. It is a large enough object... that if it is spotted by a competent crew while you are in shallow water... ... you are as good as dead... early war or late war doesn't matter. Furthermore, any enemy unit spotting you will "call" any and all available allied anti-submarine assets to assist in the destruction of your sub. Stay out of shallow water. Many crews and U-boats perished early in the war. It starts tough... and gets tougher... as in-line with history as we could make it within the limitations of the game. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

11-10-09, 01:49 AM	#4896
Venatore Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia:- Sydney Posts: 2,049 Downloads: 68 Uploads: 0	Good sailing my friend

11-11-09, 02:25 PM	#4899
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	Thanks, will stay out of the shallow water. The re-installation seems to have rectified the difficulty problems. I do not know what file or mod caused the problems, but they are solved. __________________

11-11-09, 05:26 PM	#4900
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,344 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Good to learn your sorted There is one simple rule nobody has advised you of thus far: BE MORE AGGRESSIVE!! __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

11-12-09, 01:10 PM	#4902
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	Ok will try to follow your advice! After reading it for so many times that radio message is starting to have a counter-productive effect on me, though. Every time I read it i feel so... inferior As a small tribute to all of you guys here a screenshot of my worst enemies so far, those boats are like bulldogs and are so small that they are not worth a torpedo. GWX rocks! __________________

11-12-09, 01:21 PM	#4903
Weiss Pinguin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Auburn, Alabama Posts: 3,333 Downloads: 101 Uploads: 0	In my opinion any ship that attacks me is worth at least 1 badly aimed torpedo. __________________

11-12-09, 01:27 PM	#4904
Commander Gizmo Watch Officer Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 339 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 4	That's nothing Radio. Have you ever tried to sink a tug boat or S class? You need a battle cruiser just to get started.

11-12-09, 04:49 PM	#4905
Radio Planesman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 194 Downloads: 339 Uploads: 0	@Commander Gizmo: I sank some Sampans in SH4, does that count? ---- My bad luck doesn't leave me (Or better doesn't leave "Kurt von Zollern", my Ex-Kaleun). After a quiet patrol with no detected enemy he managed to sink a Freighter, but needed 3 of the 5 torpedoes on board, the first detonated too early and one torpedo alone couldn't sink the enemy ship, so another torpedo was needed. Then one of ^those boats attacked the sub, but luckily U-17 (with the "lucky Pig" emblem) could sneak away unharmed. After a long and uneventful way home my game seems to have become somewhat corrupted (it is the career I started with the faulty installation) and instead of Kiel my ship docked in Laboe Memorial (!!!) suddenly had a stowaway on board (!!!) and when i tried to launch the mission to return to Kiel the boat collided with something and all were killed (!!!). I tried to save what was left from the patrol, deleted the All-Killed-Save-slot hoping that SH3commander could repair my Laboe autosave but nope, only an error. Okokok, sometimes life shows you clearly that some things are not wanted, I guess Kurt von Zollern's career is one of those things. Started a new career from scratch now. "Peter Hasenberg" in his U-54 Type VII. Let's hope he has more luck than his comerade. I do miss my Type II boat, though, I think I will make another career for that as well... Maybe Kurt's brother.... Lesson learned: Always save directly BEFORE entering the harbour... Here a picture of the 3-torpedo-freighter mentioned above: __________________ Last edited by Radio; 11-12-09 at 05:03 PM.