Elder Scrolls V in the works - direct sequel to Oblivion

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The dispute of whether Bethesda'S games are role-playing games or not, is many, many years old. I always found it to be completely pointless and irrelevant. You like the games, you play them. You like them not, you must not play them then. What your fantasy invests into the game, is what the game returns to you in immersion and entertainment value. I have plenty of imagination and fantasy, I always had. I love Bethesda'S open world role playing games, therefore. For the same reason I love to play The Hunter currently (currently the most played game over here, literally every late evening I play two hours at it)): I enter a different world, and my mind gets lost in it. I find this mini holiday most relaxing and entertaining. That is no escapism. Escapism it is if you enter - and do not want to find the way back into this world, and do not want to return from the fantasy world again. When your "real" life starts to suffer from your fantasy life, no matter whether book, film or game based - then it is escapism.

But its all just the movie playing inside my head. Kopfkino.

I agree with this completely. Bethesda's RPGs in general are about your character and it's interaction with the world. The story is what you make it, the rest is simply backdrop. In that sense, it is a roleplaying game in the purest form. You are playing the role that you made for yourself in the manner that suits you best. You do what you want when you want in nearly complete freedom. Most other RPGs are not about that. You can build your character's stats. You may even have some ability to roam freely and tackle things as you see fit, but you are still largely forced down the path that the game sets out for you; much like playing a movie. Essentially, you do what he game tells you to when it tells you to do it, and that even includes breaks in the story that do permit some limited free roaming and side questing. In those cases the game is saying "grind levels now and come back." Some people do like that, and place importance on 'story'. As for me, I like to play the game the way I see fit, which is why Bethesda is my all-time favorite RPG publisher.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I fear you got it completely wrong what I meant. Skyrim, or any game or sim, triggers the movie in my head that I want to see. I buy the ticket. And what I put into it, decides what I get out of it. When I read a book, it triggers a "Kopfkino", a movie in my head that I cut and film myself - I interpret how this or that character look in my fantasy, and basing on the pieces the book gives me, i decide how his/her voice sound and what the motives for acting are. It is not a movie on a screen that I follow and that gives me all that - Kopfkino means I have to do the job myself, to varying degrees. A book is most free in leaving the authoring of the details to your imagination, a film is the most stringent and leaves you the smallest freedom to your imagination, you get given all looks and sounds. A computer game is somewhere in between the two. A text adventure leaves much to your imagination, a graphical adventure like Skyrim gives you more standards that you must include in your Kopfkino.

The dispute of whether Bethesda'S games are role-playing games or not, is many, many years old. I always found it to be completely pointless and irrelevant. You like the games, you play them. You like them not, you must not play them then. What your fantasy invests into the game, is what the game returns to you in immersion and entertainment value. I have plenty of imagination and fantasy, I always had. I love Bethesda'S open world role playing games, therefore. For the same reason I love to play The Hunter currently (currently the most played game over here, literally every late evening I play two hours at it)): I enter a different world, and my mind gets lost in it. I find this mini holiday most relaxing and entertaining. That is no escapism. Escapism it is if you enter - and do not want to find the way back into this world, and do not want to return from the fantasy world again. When your "real" life starts to suffer from your fantasy life, no matter whether book, film or game based - then it is escapism.

But its all just the movie playing inside my head. Kopfkino.

Good post. That's exactly how it is for me. I love "escaping" to another world. That's one reason I love Sims so much. I can live a life that isn't available to me at the moment. I can be a Ship Captain in World War 2, I can fly B-24's over Germany, I can be a soldier fighting on the ground to save the local population from an oppressive government, or I can be the leader of a country .

The possibilities are endless...

[Stealhead]

Well color me confused I do not understand why a lot of you say how you dislike the story and quest in Skyrim and other Bethesda games.

If the story and plot is uninteresting and you are forced to "Kopfkino" everything yourself to me that signifies to some extent a failed attempt at an RPG from a certain view.

RPGs are all based on the old time RPG where people sat and played together and rolled die and created their character and one person acted as the narrator.
In this way you had a developed story which drew you in and then this in turn fueled your "Kopfkino".

What I was saying about Skyrim and other Beth RPGs is that the narrator sucks.

I know exactly what "Kopfkino" means imagination in your mind inspired by something you read or see but the key is a source inspires your "Kopfkino". If you read a book you see it in your mind("Kopfkino" I always felt people that disliked reading literature had poor "Kopfkino").

I guess a good example of what i am trying to say can be described with the Fallout series.I played the original two games long ago when they where released in the late 1990's.To me those games where well done RPGs because you had interesting story and plot and they stood out on their own and that great story also fueled at least my "Kopfkino" a great deal.A great story should fuel "Kopfkino" if you sit and play something and have a weak story and have to use your "Kopfkino" 100% then in my eyes that,movie,story or game failed at its goal in the end.

Great story does not = hand holding and limitation on what you can do mind you.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well color me confused I do not understand why a lot of you say how you dislike the story and quest in Skyrim and other Bethesda games.

If the story and plot is uninteresting and you are forced to "Kopfkino" everything yourself to me that signifies to some extent a failed attempt at an RPG from a certain view.

RPGs are all based on the old time RPG where people sat and played together and rolled die and created their character and one person acted as the narrator.
In this way you had a developed story which drew you in and then this in turn fueled your "Kopfkino".

What I was saying about Skyrim and other Beth RPGs is that the narrator sucks.

I know exactly what "Kopfkino" means imagination in your mind inspired by something you read or see but the key is a source inspires your "Kopfkino". If you read a book you see it in your mind("Kopfkino" I always felt people that disliked reading literature had poor "Kopfkino").

I guess a good example of what i am trying to say can be described with the Fallout series.I played the original two games long ago when they where released in the late 1990's.To me those games where well done RPGs because you had interesting story and plot and they stood out on their own and that great story also fueled at least my "Kopfkino" a great deal.A great story should fuel "Kopfkino" if you sit and play something and have a weak story and have to use your "Kopfkino" 100% then in my eyes that,movie,story or game failed at its goal in the end.

You are the narrator in this sort of game. As you said, Bethesda RPGs are a throwback to the D&D pen and paper games. The book gave you the framework, but you made the game. What happened with video RPGs is that the player gradually became disconnected with his role as director of the game. Instead, you got a roller coaster featuring your character. You could still alter your characters attributes and it would be fun, but you were stuck on that track; going up and down as the game dictated. Fallout is a great example of that. You can go about freely, but the clock is always ticking, limiting what you can do and when you can do it. The game ends at the end, and so does your experiecne in that world.

Look at what Skybird said about his latest playthrough. He has ignored the main questline. In his world, the narrator has that the attack on Helgen was a one-time occurance. His character is not dragonborn; rather just an ordinary citizen of Tamriel plying a trade. If that isn't old school narration, I don't know what is.

What I am saying is that games like TES series are more true to the classical RPG than games like Mass Effect and Dragon Age, which tend to feature the new-style story-driven RPG.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well color me confused I do not understand why a lot of you say how you dislike the story and quest in Skyrim and other Bethesda games.

If the story and plot is uninteresting and you are forced to "Kopfkino" everything yourself to me that signifies to some extent a failed attempt at an RPG from a certain view.

RPGs are all based on the old time RPG where people sat and played together and rolled die and created their character and one person acted as the narrator.
In this way you had a developed story which drew you in and then this in turn fueled your "Kopfkino".

What I was saying about Skyrim and other Beth RPGs is that the narrator sucks.

I know exactly what "Kopfkino" means imagination in your mind inspired by something you read or see but the key is a source inspires your "Kopfkino". If you read a book you see it in your mind("Kopfkino" I always felt people that disliked reading literature had poor "Kopfkino").

I guess a good example of what i am trying to say can be described with the Fallout series.I played the original two games long ago when they where released in the late 1990's.To me those games where well done RPGs because you had interesting story and plot and they stood out on their own and that great story also fueled at least my "Kopfkino" a great deal.A great story should fuel "Kopfkino" if you sit and play something and have a weak story and have to use your "Kopfkino" 100% then in my eyes that,movie,story or game failed at its goal in the end.

Great story does not = hand holding and limitation on what you can do mind you.

I like the storyline...I just like to add my own little details in as I go along...and I've got to do something once i'm done with that storyline don't I?

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I like the storyline...I just like to add my own little details in as I go along...and I've got to do something once i'm done with that storyline don't I?

You are not understanding me if you read my post and give that answer.I am just posting my opinion not trying to change yours.(except for the part where you said that anyone can play Skyrim and like it.)

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

You are not understanding me if you read my post and give that answer.I am just posting my opinion not trying to change yours.(except for the part where you said that anyone can play Skyrim and like it.)

Fine. I don't even care.


Just kidding. I will say that I like imagining parts of all the games I play. I haven't heard of anyone not liking Skyrim and you people are better at arguing than me.

On to something else...

Does anybody know what the next Bethesda RPG will be?

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Does anybody know what the next Bethesda RPG will be?

The Elder Scrolls Online, if that counts. Besides that, they haven't announced anything yet but I'm betting on Fallout 4.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

Does anybody know what the next Bethesda RPG will be?

Fallout 4.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Raptor1

The Elder Scrolls Online, if that counts. Besides that, they haven't announced anything yet but I'm betting on Fallout 4.

Online shouldn't count.

I hope they do a Fallout 4...but last I checked there wasn't even any speculation.

Last time I checked was also early last year IIRC...I might look into it.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Red October1984

I hope they do a Fallout 4...but last I checked there wasn't even any speculation.

There's plenty of speculation.

http://www.oxm.co.uk/49436/fallout-3...ode-like-this/

http://metro.co.uk/2013/02/04/fallou...-game-3379914/

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/fa...bsidian-ready/

http://www.examiner.com/article/fall...ed-by-obsidian

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

Well color me confused I do not understand why a lot of you say how you dislike the story and quest in Skyrim and other Bethesda games.

Each of their games has one main quest, however, the world is much more than that and offers many - very many - side-quests, and the ability to play what you want and like you want, not focussing on quests at all. The main quests are just one part of the package. And a very small part only it is. In Skyrim for exmaple I hjave played for some longer time as "trapper" exclusively, and miner. I hunt, and sometimes dug ore, and left it to that pretty much. The main argument in favour of Bethesda is that they give you a beautifully created world with interacting elements in it. What you do in this world, is totally up to you.

If the story and plot is uninteresting and you are forced to "Kopfkino" everything yourself to me that signifies to some extent a failed attempt at an RPG from a certain view.

The world the game offers, is much more than just the main quest. The main quest is set in the world, not the other way around. The freedom of action is what attracts players. You can everything, but you must nothing. Be a thief. A hunter. a city-inhabitant. A lonesome trapper. A murderer. A sword swinger. A hiding sneaker. An archer. A mage of any of the schools, or several of them. Or some bits of all. An outlaw. A paladin. Side with the one faction, or the other, or a third. It's up to you, and how you interpret the role.

Anyhow, if you do not like Skyrim or Oblivion - then simply don't play it! Heck, to me even The Hunter is kind of a role playing game, because in real life I do not hunt at all. Even a racing simulation with any kind of a competition inbuilt, a trace series or a league, is a RPG. Flying online for a virtual airline includes RPG elements. I think the term means much more than the relatively tight conception of yours. You can see it that way, that is okay, since it is your taste. Just when you want others to necessarily agree with your idea - then you risk that sooner or later some people get a little bit upset. Not necessary that is! You play yours, I play mine, they play theirs. Whether the one calls the others' game this or that, is unimportant.

[Stealhead]

Anyway it seems there is some confusion here as some seem to think that I do not like Skyrim this is not the case I would not do something in my free time that I dislike.

I was trying to express my view which is that most Bethesda games though overall they are good games they in my opinion have a weakness in how they come across story wise this would be a serious flaw if they lacked the open world features that they also happen to possess.I am not saying that they should hem you in like Dragonage and Mass Effect do.

I like the open worldness(made up word) and not being forced to follow main quest lines I find nothing wrong with this.It seems to me that the main quests always seem to lacking it does not seem to flow well with the open world element I suppose many players would rather free roam purely to me this is a failing on a certain level.


In regards to the next RPG by Bethesda it is going to be Fallout 4 (or some Fallout) I think that their rights to the franchise runs out pretty soon so they are not going to put the money they spent buying those rights and not make another Fallout.Hopefully they will have Obsidian work on the next Fallout I thought that New Vegas had a much better story than FO3.

@ RedOctober trust me there are people that would not play Skyrim or any RPG you are forgetting that this is pretty much a geek/nerd forum I bet if you polled around you would find several members even here that do not like Skyrim or any RPG for that matter.Dose everyone like NASCAR racing or MY Little Pony? No they don't.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

In regards to the next RPG by Bethesda it is going to be Fallout 4 (or some Fallout) I think that their rights to the franchise runs out pretty soon so they are not going to put the money they spent buying those rights and not make another Fallout.Hopefully they will have Obsidian work on the next Fallout I thought that New Vegas had a much better story than FO3.

Actually, as of this past December Bethesda singularly owns the rights to produce Fallout titles. Interplay's rights to sell the series ends on December 31st of this year. So, those rights will not expire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout...s)#IP_lawsuits

EDIT: Oops. Looks like it was actually January 2012:

http://www.pixlbit.com/news/1689/bet...t_over_fallout

[Stealhead]

So they have it for long haul then.I read on that Wiki page that one of the voice actors from New Vegas Tweeted that "Three Dog was going to make a return soon.That is good news for some and bad news for others seems people either loved or hated Three Dog.Hopefully Obsidian gets to have hand in the games again.

I have a store copy of the Fallout Trilogy that Interplay sold guess the money went to pay lawyers.

The related story about the suit that was lost against the creators of Minecraft over the term "Scrolls" seems a little harsh they deserved to loose that one.