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View Poll Results: Single player UI
Add icons to the screen that allow a player to change course, speed, depth with a click 63 48.46%
Add icons to the screen that place the player in the compartment to manually change course, speed, depth 59 45.38%
Leave single player UI out 1 0.77%
Other (posted below) 7 5.38%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-12-2016, 02:45 PM   #16
Feldpost
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An 'optional' single-player GUI should be an option when hosting a session (as kind of realism setting).
Maybe only accessible by the guy who make the host(= as Skipper).

But these 'Shortcuts' should not cover all that stuff we are used by former titles , like

* reading the Map or plotting a course, while standing @ BFT9 in the coning tower in the north atlantic sea
* etc...

Just basic crew instructions like (full)port, (full)starboard,'full ahead'... also transmit observation to the TDC...
The balance should always reward multicrew-ships against single-player

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Old 07-13-2016, 10:37 PM   #17
sober
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I have been thinking long about the single player interface . Well actually about 5 minutes .
In order of preference .
Dream single player interface No1 = Click on Crew avatar in the command room and request speed /depth /position etc . Go to the crew position and watch the crew carry out the command . Alternatively go there myself and carry out the command myself .
Dream single player interface No2 = Click on Crew avatar in the command room and request speed /depth /position etc . Alternatively go there myself and carry out the command myself .
Dream single player interface No3 = Click on a GUI to request speed /depth /position etc . Alternatively go there myself and carry out the command myself .
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:43 AM   #18
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5 minutes of your thinking is actually very productive, sober.

We have been discussing how to implement the single player/2/3 player interface for the game. We want to ensure that a single player can manage the boat without overly disruptive changes or shifting. I think we have come to some really good decisions about this. Thanks for the input, it has been helpful.
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Old 07-16-2016, 01:26 AM   #19
sober
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Found this in an old subsim archive .
Very interesting point of view .
''
karamazovnew
08-31-2009, 04:58 PM
I don't want to do manual targeting, the Captain did NOT do this. Oh really?
Let me "quote" the bible of subsimming (for me), Das Boot. In one attack the Captain shoots torpedoes at a DD and misses. In the next Attack the Second Officer conducts the attack on a convoy and hits with 4 out of 4 torpedoes, sinking 3 ships. ALL the captain did was choose a surface attack and mark the 3 targets. The point is, the Captain could do it manually, but he didn't have to.
Being able to click any switch, use any dial (not by clicking on it, if you don't mind, but by dragging a knob) and sit at any station is an important aspect of SH. But having an inteligent crew that you can rely on (regardless of difficulty options) for full navigation/detection/attacks is indeed a must. As we've seen, the main aspect of SH5 is the sub's crew. My only fear is dumbing down the "hands-on" aspect of the game.
So my only wish (apart from all the rest here, ofc) for SH5 is to create immersion by first creating neccesity. I'd like it to be very hard and complex, but also automatised to the players's degree of lazyness, through an inteligent and dynamic crew. That's the point of having a crew in the first place, isn't it?''

Last edited by sober; 07-16-2016 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 07-17-2016, 03:09 AM   #20
sober
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Crew Automation
Why make hundreds of crew animations when I can make them while playing the game .
Don't even know if this is possible in a pc game .
What if I can click some sort of teaching mode .
The game records what I do in first person mode and then I can give that exact sequence to an AI crew member .
This is all done in game while playing the campaign .
The game logs what actions I do in the teaching mode and then I can give those actions in that time frame to a crew member . The crew member will do exactly what I just did in the teaching mode .
I am not sure how the hands on actions of the crew would work . If crew are using the rudder wheel and I wanted to use it would I just click on it . (this part is a bit dodgy)
This is how it should work .
Click on a crew member I would like to train .
Name the crew action such as (Raise dive planes) .
Start the training sequence .
I would do all the actions .
Stop the training sequence .
Those actions are given to the crew member that I choose .
The crew member would then just repeat everything I just did when I was in teaching mode when I give the order .
Obviously the dials/levers/switches movement are included in the training sequence if they are used .
Obviously the trained crew member would walk or run to the spot I went to depending on weather I walk or run in training mode .
While in training mode , wherever the curser point is would be where the crew hand is (only when in hand pointer mode) .
I could assign different actions to crew by dragging action names that I type into a box to the crew member .
I could click on first officer and there would be a list of actions that he has .
Silent running for example . The silent running is linked to other orders which in turn are linked to other crew members which do there sequence for silent running .
I would need to be able to link and unlink actions while playing the game .
Basically at the start of a campaign the crew is idle at a station / bunk etc .
Just say I order emergency dive . I click on the first officer and from a list of orders that I have made by giving him , I then click on emergency dive and he runs to a certain spot . Because I have linked other crew to this action they also do there actions . Just like SH5 crew animations except I can generate the crew actions in teaching mode while playing the game .
The game could ship with a basic crew ability for novices or you could start with a crew that is not trained at all . I would have complete control of my crew and what they do because I have shown them exactly what to do in training mode .
Surfacing the boat for example . I click on the Chief to surface the boat . I have trained the navigator to do a depth check because I did it myself in training mode using the fully functional depth thingy . Watch crew are trained to climb up the ladder and go to the watch position because I went there earlier in the training mode . Earlier I trained the crew by linking the watch crew to the Chief and the surface order . I clicked on the crew member earlier and linked the order WATCH to that crew member . The crew could spot something on the horizon and start off with (something spotted on the horizon) (text to speech software) and then I could look at it myself and type ship so that next time he spots something similar he calls out ship . When it gets closer and I can recognise the ship I can type in what type and next time he can call out destroyer spotted . Same for friendly or enemy etc . If I havnt recognised what type of plane or ship or enemy or friendly at the beginning of the campaign then crew cannot recognise what type either . Alternatively you could have a fully trained crew package at the start of the campaign or anything in between .
Lets say I have trained the watch crew to spot enemy aircraft . When the watch crew says enemy aircraft spotted I could have other crew get the sub ready for a crash dive manoeuvre , depth sounding , engine control , crew movements etc etc .
Alternatively you could have a fully trained crew or anything in between at the start . You could have different routines for different parts of the campaign . A plane appears and because I have linked ALARM order to the watch officer , when I click on the watch officer ALARM order the men run down the ladder and assume there positions that I trained them to do earlier . There could be certain routines shipped with the game (ALARM) routine for example . I know the sub will dive because the dive manoeuvre i also trained the dive manoeuvre to the appropriate crew and linked it to the watch officer ALARM order while in training mode . The sub shouldn't dive while crew or myself on deck .
Lets say I enter an area with heavy plane cover . I could increse the number of crew who are WATCH PLANES by clicking on the watch officer and clicking on WATCH PLANES order . This would bring more crew up to the conning tower . I would have to be careful while training that I have included them in the ALARM order so they don't get left on the deck and drown .
I could have different crew routines by clicking on lets say the navigator . While leaving a friendly port I could have the radio operator listen and report incoming messages or play the gramophone or use the radio etc . While in battle stations I have trained all the crew or just some of the crew to do certain tasks etc etc etc .

Each player could have there own Crew Animation package and upload it as a steam workshop content . EG: Sobers early war Type II crew (Mostly clowning around but getting the job done in the end) . Someone might think of a better way to utilise crew in different scenarios . Infinite number of crew combinations and actions . Crews easily setup to be used in multiplayer/single player modes . Individual player crews setup for there playing style . Variable number of crew from none to how ever many you want .
Can it be done and would people want it ?

Last edited by sober; 07-18-2016 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:55 AM   #21
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Quote:
The game could ship with a basic crew ability for novices or you could start with a crew that is not trained at all.
Real submariners start off as moderately experienced (surface) sailors. They would be perfectly capable of handling basic duties such as helmsmanship and rope-handling from the outset. Diesel-electric machinery might give them more trouble.

From a gameplay perspective, I don't relish the prospect of having to personally train my crew from scratch. They should be capable of doing their assigned duties at a basic level from the start, and improve their speed/range/accuracy with time and drilling. A few practice crash-dives really helps to get the diving time down...
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Old 07-19-2016, 02:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromatix View Post
Real submariners start off as moderately experienced (surface) sailors. They would be perfectly capable of handling basic duties such as helmsmanship and rope-handling from the outset. Diesel-electric machinery might give them more trouble.

From a gameplay perspective, I don't relish the prospect of having to personally train my crew from scratch. They should be capable of doing their assigned duties at a basic level from the start, and improve their speed/range/accuracy with time and drilling. A few practice crash-dives really helps to get the diving time down...
You obviously didn't read this part .
''Alternatively you could have a fully trained crew package at the start of the campaign or anything in between '' Its just an idea , probably will never happen .
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sober View Post
Crew Automation
Why make hundreds of crew animations when I can make them while playing the game.
Generally I think that this is bad idea becouse it consumes a lot of workhours without spectacular effect. We saw how it worked at SH5: as manequins, or mechanic dolls.
Secondary idea is we're playing submarine simulator, not captain-simulator or life-on-sub-simulator. So for me crew may be gone (or be as objects like in SH3/4).

Of course finally crew animations may give spectacular effect and increase game climate (like at trailer SH5), but... I'm sorry, I dont believe with it.
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Old 07-19-2016, 04:11 PM   #24
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the captain's seat...

thats exactly the 'mask' of the developers who are avoiding to make a submarine simulator

i am not saying that captain's seat has no interest (on the contrary it has a lot. in fact , every 'seat' has its own interest). i am saying that the games which are focusing at the ''captain's point of view' has not the need to be a submarine simulator.

the captain's 'trap' is torturing the submarine simulators for many years now.
the 'sim' part in silent hunter series has stopped at sh2. after that game, nothing added to the sim engine (except the real navigation in sh5 but i am not sure if this is an achievement of ubi devs or an achievement of our great modder TDW aka RACERBOY)

i see so many enthusiasm for real navigation which to some of you may have no interest but to others has a lot.But if you want to seat on navigator's seat there is the need of sim elements to be programmed

if you want to seat on sonarman's seat....there is the need of sim elements to be programmed

if you want to seat on weapon's officer's seat ...there is the need of sim elements to be programmed (which is the only part that was modelled in the first games of sh series)

if you want to seat on engine's officer's seat ...there is the need of sim elements to be programmed...and so on.

see my point of view ? every seat has its own interest but every seat (exept captain's seat) needs sim elements to be programmed.

my preference seat is the sonarman's seat (see 688i , this is how is done a game which can be called as sim) , then is weapon officer's seat and then i would say navigator's seat.

coming to my conclusion: give us the 'seats' and let everyone play at the style he wishes
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:59 AM   #25
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I vote for keystrokes to go to periscope depth, fire torpedo, turns, speed up or slow down, and surface. The scope can be the 'targeting aim point' if an AI is handling the TDC or to alter course to view point. These are the actions most immediate for safe operation.

The captain can set up a shot on the TDC and return to the scope to fire it. Or, he can point the scope at a fire point and key the fire button.

To dive deeper than periscope depth or surface, he could have keystrokes or go to the engine room to do it himself. He has no use for the scope below 10 meters, so could move to the ballast control. The human navigator could also be able to go and take over from an AI engine room to set the sub as ordered by the captain.

AI crew should not do more than follow orders unless there is a situation, like damage or new contact to report.

Changing depth via keystroke should be in increments of a set amount. Don't forget to have a way to determine bottom depth too.

Surfaced, there should be three lookout spots on the bridge. Access to the keystrokes should be available from scope, bridge, and binocular screens. How you get three down below in a hurry can be either teleport keyed by the captain or a keystroke for each position. Each player would have a "get below" button that returns him to the position he started the game with.

The captain position should not be handled by AI since it overrides the other positions and could cause problems.

I can't wait to see what you guys do!!!
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Old 08-14-2016, 12:13 PM   #26
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Honestly I would do both, and let the player/host choose. The setting could also factor into a difficulty/realism setting too for the game (which I would also suggest if you haven't planned for one). More choices for the player usually is better.
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Old 08-17-2016, 04:43 AM   #27
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Hello All!
First of all, congratulations of the great work of all involved. I have been searching for such a title since i stumbled across the SH series!

It's no secret that multiplayer is taking over games and how they are developed, yet, for those unable to (or wish) to play with fewer than the "desired" quota for a team or indeed solo are often left trying to accomplish too much simultaneously.

There are those in the world who aren't part of a group of friends with enough for a sub crew, some dont have reliable internet connections (and yes, other parts of the world acutally have monthly download / upload quotas!) or... they simply accept and relish the challenge of achieving what a capable team can do all by themselves.

So, bearing all of that in mind... I can't help but look toward the Elite Dangerous. A title that has become serious study material for those interested in UI design, on how to "crew" a complex ship and carry out all the tasks needed by yourself. Be that of combat, navigation, system management... this is no different to other tasks such as engine room, diving, sonar, Targeting etc.

This does mean every control is assignable to either buttons, sliders, joysticks etc. And this is all very great. Some people will put in the hard yards and create macros to achieve common functions required in sequence due to the situation. This is no different to the chap before describing "training" a crew member. You are recording what you want done and how... so it will be faithfully replicated on command.

What generates the most interest is the natural input and feedback via voice. This is after all a huge draw card and immersion factor for Marulken / Wolfpack. The ability to request, demand, order etc and have it done. Or not. If you search any videos on people who use a mod to issue voice commands, the bulk replies are "how can i do this too, it's so cool" etc etc.

So, people are impressed with the captains perspective of barking and it happens. Where Marulken / Wolfpack distinguishes itself from a macro running, or voice activation performing the required function is the social element, level of skill and im sure at times level of compliance! Dealing with somebody slightly drunk and in need of a giggle not doing their part ensures chaos erupts. hopefully among friends who can see the funny side and not end up as a screaming match over teamspeak.

I can't remember the last time I pressed a key on a keyboard and it hasn't done what its supposed to because:
it wasn't sure what to do exactly
when to do it exactly
the computer had an attitude and thought, stuff you... im not going to, its time for REVOLT!

So, naturally we will have trade off's. As a single player we expect a task to be carried out however it's requested (key, icon, other physical input, voice) without issue. Dealing with humans we have to pick up on the replies. Was the order received correctly? do they sound confident in the task? That level of natural information we process when interacting is another layer in the attraction of the multiplayer aspect. For single players or lesser crewed subs...Will we end up with AI crew needing some encouragement to get the job done? repeated commands? congratualtions on a job well done (sinking a boat, repairs carried out, target located etc). We saw the employment of encouraging crew in SH5 and in earlier series by way of medals etc, promotion yada yada.

Sorry if all this is hard to read, I just notice where others have tried successfully in bridging the gap in how one person interacts and receives meaningful help when technology is involved. Years ago this idea of a multiplayer sub was nothing but a dream. I downloaded a voice control mod for SH4 where it simply executed the same things as the icons did by hidden mouse clicks. After i learned the list of things to say, I can tell you... not having to touch a keyboard and simply thinking... I need to get to the surface, I just say "blow ballast" and it happens is truly game changing. And yet, it's a very unused mod due to the limitations of needing to train the program a bit to your voice. I think it used microsoft speech somehow. Anyway, once that works... keyboards, icons all mean nada. Just speaking wins hands down.

Long story short, voice input shouldn't be overlooked. Think about that the next time you use Siri / Cortana / Xbox Kinect / Whatever samsungs Siri is called / Voice dialling in your car. We enjoy completing tasks and interacting in the way humans best communicate. Vocally.

Good luck reading all of that!
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Old 08-26-2016, 01:50 AM   #28
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Previous post revoked by Nsomnia.



I agree crew AI to take over stations that can be trained to a higher level and a full GUI for the CO or even all relevant stations in multiplayer and a full GUI with hotkeys is best for single player.
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Old 10-15-2016, 03:03 PM   #29
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Like many others I am very interested in Wolfpack but do not have time (or a consistent enough schedule) to play multiplayer. So once (if) a specific approach to SP is agreed and committed to I will immediately purchase Wolfpack (assuming the approach is workable and fun).

I personally think the ability to control the sub at stations and through a floating UI and key press capability is the way to go. Finally crew should start at an average to slightly below average level and go up from there. Assuming SP will be available at some point please send out another email at that time to advise those like me who will then want to make a purchase. Thanks!
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