Summer 1944

joegrundman · 11-14-08, 01:11 AM

Battle of the Atlantic

U-boats continue to be a menace!

14 U-boats against 19 ASW

mods

NDRM+1 germany
torpedoes +4
ports +2
Us at war+1
ASW-5
air range -2
CVEs-2

Net:-1 in favour of allies

Germany rolls 7 mod 6=3/7
Allies roll 7 mod 8=4/10

no additional damage inflicted

A new era dawns

Germany opens a new era of ballistic missile warfare with a terrible rain of A4 missiles on London. These weapons travel faster than sound on a trajectory that takes them beyond the Earth's atmosphere. There is no defense against them, but the accuracy is not great and the damage is mostly to residential areas of the city.

While British newspapers proclaim loudly at the evil and indiscriminate nature of these weapons, privately Allied engineers, military leaders and scientists marvel at the technological achievement and decide that the allies really must learn how to make them.

2 salvos fired, causing 10 brps damage

joegrundman · 11-14-08, 08:00 AM

Germany assaults Rotterdam in Operation Merlyn

two 5o6, two 4o6, two 2-3 and a 3-3 and 3AAF (total 28) attack Rotterdam with 3-4,3-4 and 1c3 (total defense 14) at 2:1

The allies commit 19 AAF to the defense, raising the defending strength to 33

Germany sends massive air interception, including jets in their first major air battle, and a sizeable portion of the entire Luftwaffe. This is by far the biggest single air battle of the war.

total 22AAF and 2 jets (equivalent 3 AAF each) for a total of 28 intercepting air

Germany rolls 8= 10/14
Allies roll 7 = 7/7

The allies are forced to cede control of the air and the armoured assault on Rotterdam begins (a 6) with a crushing assault that devastated much of the city. After a week of fighting the overwhelmed defenders surrender

Operation Cheesecutter ends with large numbers of allied Pows spending the rest of the war in German camps. Operation Merlyn however is declared a great success, and the General in charge of the operation is promoted to Field Marshall

joegrundman · 11-16-08, 09:28 PM

Battle of Bordeax

Large numbers of RAF assets flew over occupied france to new bases in Free France to join in Patton's big push on Bordeax.

The defense is a 3-3 and 4o6=7x2=14

The attack is three 5o6, a 3-4, 10 AAF=28

2:1

allies roll a 5, a d result. The German armour is lost. The follow up attack is at 4:1 and rolls a 2, no losses to the allies. Bordeax and the railhead are liberated

African American soldiers liberate the city center from which Pattons 4th army proceeds to exploit out of Bordeax with Montgomery's 7th

In the exploitation attack, 10 US armoured and 8 british armor factos + 6 AAF attack thr 4o6 at 3:1 rolling 3 - no losses to the allies

Finally the attack is completed with British airborne forces making a paradrop and capturing the undefended town and submarine abse of St.Nazaire

joegrundman · 11-17-08, 12:22 AM

Air Strikes Around Lae

4 USAAF attack Japanese airbases holding 3 AAF and 3NAS at Lae

By the end of the battles, Japan lost 3 AAF equivalent, US2. Surviving Japanese 1 AAF flies to Kavieng in the Bismarcks and is inverted.

Pearl Harbor Payback!

24 NAS come screaming in towards Lae harbour early in the morning

The air defenses are level 9 (+4 fleet factors, +2 port, +2 fort and airbase, +1 air defense) and rolls a 10

3 are shot down (4 are aborted, but carrier launched NAS are not aborted by air defense)

21 NAS target the ships

The Japanese ships in harbour are the BB4s Nagato and Mutsu, BB3s Ise, Yamashiro, Fuso and Hyuga, CA6 and DD18

5 NAS target the Nagato, and 4 target the Mutsu, 3 target each of the BB3s. there are no applicable mods.

Results

BB4 Nagato (10)=5 hits
BB4 Mutsu (7)=3 hits
BB3 Ise (9)=3 hits
BB3 Yamashiro (2)=1 hit
BB3 Fuso (6)=2 hits
BB3 Hyuga (6)=2 hits

The Nagato and the Ise are sunk, the Mutsu, Fuso and Hyuga are damaged.

critical hits on Nagato with a 5 means the damage is catastrophic, but the Ise is considered recoverable

After this raid the wind suddenly strengthened causing a day long delay in sending out the second wave - in this time the Japanese forces in Lae, invoking the Samurai spirit, sallied out to engage the patrolling TF

The weather cleared in time for the battle, and the huge amount of American air cover meant the approaching Japanese force was spotted long before contact was made, getting 3 search results on TF 5 and 1 on TF4

The American fighters launched the attack with 21 factors on TF5, catching the fleet by surprise -1 on air defense. The air defense is very poor (a 2), shooting down no NAS at all

5 target the BB4 Mutsu, 5 target the BB3 Yamashiro, 4 target the Fuso, 4 target the Hyuga, 3 target CA4

Mutsu (3) 2 hits no effect, still damaged
yamashiro (7) 3 hits sunk
Fuso (9) 3 hits sunk
Hyuga (4) 2 hits, damaged, sunk
CA4 (11) 3 hits CA2 sunk, CA2 damaged

10 LBA also striike the TF

air defense aborts 1 AAS

6 target the Mutsu, 3 the CA2

Mutsu (8) 4 hits sunk
CA2 (4) 1hit sunk

the entire TF5 has been destroyed in the crushing Battle of the Coral Sea

Japan withdraws TF 4 from combat and retreats to Truk

joegrundman · 11-17-08, 08:31 PM

The Gatos strike

new torpedoes, greater numbers and revised doctrine mean that the subs finally start to fulfill Roosevelt's instruction that "I want our subs to do to the Japs what the Krauts did to us!"

5 subs sink 4 transports and damage 2 for the loss of 1 sub factor

joegrundman · 11-17-08, 08:45 PM

The Battle of Coral Sea

With his ears still smarting after the dressing down he received for the detsruction of Task Force 5, Admiral Yamamoto senses an opportunity for a counter attack after intelligence analysts informed him that a US Task Force was steaming towards New Georgia with an invasion force

He sets a trap with TF 3 and TF1 from Rabual and TF2 from Truk

The US patrolling force led by Admiral Nimitz steams in to support the invasion

Japanese patrol planes from Rabaul make contact with the US TF6 first to vector in the Japanese forces

Japanese have 6 search dice, US 3.

Japan rolls 1,1,2,2,3,6, finding all the us groups, revealing the 1st US group has no carriers and the second has 4.
US rolls 2,2,6 finding the second Japanese group and revealing it has 4 carriers

Japan launches strikes from it's hidden carriers. A strike against US group 2 using 8 eNAS and a strike against US group 3 using 8NAS

The strike on Us Group2 gets a level 4 surprise
The strike on US group 3 gets a level 2 surprise

Attack on group 2

3 eNAS peel off to face 3 defending American NAS at +1 for the Japanese at level 4 surprise, meaning no CAP bonus, -1 air defense, +1 on damage roll, only 2/3 of CAP can fly (=3 out of 4)

Japan rolls 7 - a 1/3 result
US rolls 7 - a 1-2 result

5 eNAS face the air defenses - level 3 (level3 for fleet +1 for air defense, -1 for surprise) and rolls 9! a 1/3 result

abort results from air defense do not stop carrier launched NAS.

4e NAS get through the screen and 2 target the CV3 Hornet rolling an 8 mod 12 (+1 surprise, +1 enAS, +2 vs carrier)=3 hits!
2 eNAS target the CV3 Intrepid, rolling a 7, mod 11, 3 hits!

Both carriers are hit badly, the Hornet torpedoed, sinks while being towed back to port the next day, the Intrepid exploding and sinking within minutes of being hit by bombs

Strike on group 3

4 NAS face 4 NAS with level 2 surprise meaning the US does not enjoy +1 for CAP, and -1 on air defense
Japan rolls 5, a 1/2
US rolls 6, a 1/3

4 NAS face the air defense at level 3, rolling a 7, a 1/1 result

2 NAS get through and target the CV3 Gettysburg at +2 mod rolling a 2! Only 1 hit, so no significant damage

Japanese strike from found group

6 NAS fly out to attack

2 NAS engage 2 USNAS +1 mod for US

Japan rolls 8 mod 7, a 1/1 result
US rolls 4 mod 5, a 1/0 result
5 NAS face the guns at level 4 rolling a 2! a 1/0 result

4 NAS attack the carriers at +2, all 4 targetting the constellation rolling a 7 mod 9, 3 hits! The constellation is damaged and no longer operational!

US attack on Japanese Group 2

4 NAS from TF2 face 1 AAS air cover

US rolls 4, 0/1, Japan rolls 7, a 1/0 result
US 3 NAS face 4 NAS defending at +1 for CAP

US rolls 9 mod 8, a 1/3 result
Japan rolls 8, mod 9, a 1/3 result

Second strike
7 NAS from group 3 face 3NAS at +1

US rolls 8 mod 7, a 1/3 result
Japan rolls 4 mod 5, a 1/1 result

5 NAS face the guns of group 2 at level 5 rolling a 7, a 2/1 result

2 NAS close in on the CVL2 Zuiho at +2 mod and roll a 7! mod 9 - 2 hits! The Zuiho is sunk

The long guns fire as the two group2s meet

US 13 factors, BB5 Montana, two BB4s versus Japan 15 factors, BB5 Musashi and 10 lights

All fire concentrated on the BB5s

US rolls 8, 4 hits! The Mighty Musashi is damaged
Japan rolls 11! 5 hits! The Mighty Montana is sunk!

At nightfall, the US decides to withdraw the mission to invade New Georgia, and Admiral Yamamoto will not have to face a court martial after all

However the departing US force is intercepted by the two Japanese submarines, but they get brutally crushed by the vengeful US destroyers

At the end of the fighting the damage is as follows

Japan:
CVL2 Zuiho
2 subs
2eNAS
5NAS
BB5 Musashi damaged

US:
CV3 Hornet
CV3 Intrepid
BB5 Montana
8NAS
CVB4 Constellation damaged

A complete victory for Japan, but taking in the earlier complete destruction of Japan's Task Force 5, and the rate at which new carriers are being launched in the US, it is not clear who ultimately was the victor in the season's battles

joegrundman · 11-17-08, 09:10 PM

Operation Krasny Shtorm

In ironic Stalin fashion, the summer offensive for the Red Army seems to have been specifically named to confuse translators and historian, since in translation it is the same as Fuehrer Oberon's Rote Sturm

Counterair attacks begin the offensive

Breslau airbase is neutralised at a rate of 3 AAF lost for 3 AAF

Kolberg is neutralised despite a rate of 2 german AAF lost for 4 Russian in a virt

The finnish AAF in Posnan is eliminated for 1 Red AAF

Ground attack

Using two shock armies and human wave attacks combined with massed armour and the first red army paradrop on L34 behind the Vistula

the defense is 14 (because bypass the river using airdrop)

the attack is two 3-3, three 4o5, 5o6, 1m3, 4AAF=28

2:1 rolls a 6! A crushing Red army advance obliterates the Wehrmacht defensive position and establishes a bridgehead on the other side of the Vistula

In a second but shockingly bloody battle, the Red Army also manages to make a breakthrough near Brest-Litovsk - Russian losses are horrific

Exploitation

Red Army armoured units push through the gaps to exploit the results of the offensive

Warsaw is surrounded and Red Army soldiers are on the border with the Vaterland

Here ends the exciting and action packed Summer of 1944

11-14-08, 01:11 AM	#1
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Summer 1944 Battle of the Atlantic U-boats continue to be a menace! 14 U-boats against 19 ASW mods NDRM+1 germany torpedoes +4 ports +2 Us at war+1 ASW-5 air range -2 CVEs-2 Net:-1 in favour of allies Germany rolls 7 mod 6=3/7 Allies roll 7 mod 8=4/10 no additional damage inflicted A new era dawns Germany opens a new era of ballistic missile warfare with a terrible rain of A4 missiles on London. These weapons travel faster than sound on a trajectory that takes them beyond the Earth's atmosphere. There is no defense against them, but the accuracy is not great and the damage is mostly to residential areas of the city. While British newspapers proclaim loudly at the evil and indiscriminate nature of these weapons, privately Allied engineers, military leaders and scientists marvel at the technological achievement and decide that the allies really must learn how to make them. 2 salvos fired, causing 10 brps damage __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-14-08 at 07:40 AM.

11-14-08, 08:00 AM	#2
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Germany assaults Rotterdam in Operation Merlyn two 5o6, two 4o6, two 2-3 and a 3-3 and 3AAF (total 28) attack Rotterdam with 3-4,3-4 and 1c3 (total defense 14) at 2:1 The allies commit 19 AAF to the defense, raising the defending strength to 33 Germany sends massive air interception, including jets in their first major air battle, and a sizeable portion of the entire Luftwaffe. This is by far the biggest single air battle of the war. total 22AAF and 2 jets (equivalent 3 AAF each) for a total of 28 intercepting air Germany rolls 8= 10/14 Allies roll 7 = 7/7 The allies are forced to cede control of the air and the armoured assault on Rotterdam begins (a 6) with a crushing assault that devastated much of the city. After a week of fighting the overwhelmed defenders surrender Operation Cheesecutter ends with large numbers of allied Pows spending the rest of the war in German camps. Operation Merlyn however is declared a great success, and the General in charge of the operation is promoted to Field Marshall __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-14-08 at 08:31 AM.

11-16-08, 09:28 PM	#3
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Battle of Bordeax Large numbers of RAF assets flew over occupied france to new bases in Free France to join in Patton's big push on Bordeax. The defense is a 3-3 and 4o6=7x2=14 The attack is three 5o6, a 3-4, 10 AAF=28 2:1 allies roll a 5, a d result. The German armour is lost. The follow up attack is at 4:1 and rolls a 2, no losses to the allies. Bordeax and the railhead are liberated African American soldiers liberate the city center from which Pattons 4th army proceeds to exploit out of Bordeax with Montgomery's 7th In the exploitation attack, 10 US armoured and 8 british armor factos + 6 AAF attack thr 4o6 at 3:1 rolling 3 - no losses to the allies Finally the attack is completed with British airborne forces making a paradrop and capturing the undefended town and submarine abse of St.Nazaire __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-16-08 at 09:31 PM.

11-17-08, 12:22 AM	#4
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Air Strikes Around Lae 4 USAAF attack Japanese airbases holding 3 AAF and 3NAS at Lae By the end of the battles, Japan lost 3 AAF equivalent, US2. Surviving Japanese 1 AAF flies to Kavieng in the Bismarcks and is inverted. Pearl Harbor Payback! 24 NAS come screaming in towards Lae harbour early in the morning The air defenses are level 9 (+4 fleet factors, +2 port, +2 fort and airbase, +1 air defense) and rolls a 10 3 are shot down (4 are aborted, but carrier launched NAS are not aborted by air defense) 21 NAS target the ships The Japanese ships in harbour are the BB4s Nagato and Mutsu, BB3s Ise, Yamashiro, Fuso and Hyuga, CA6 and DD18 5 NAS target the Nagato, and 4 target the Mutsu, 3 target each of the BB3s. there are no applicable mods. Results BB4 Nagato (10)=5 hits BB4 Mutsu (7)=3 hits BB3 Ise (9)=3 hits BB3 Yamashiro (2)=1 hit BB3 Fuso (6)=2 hits BB3 Hyuga (6)=2 hits The Nagato and the Ise are sunk, the Mutsu, Fuso and Hyuga are damaged. critical hits on Nagato with a 5 means the damage is catastrophic, but the Ise is considered recoverable After this raid the wind suddenly strengthened causing a day long delay in sending out the second wave - in this time the Japanese forces in Lae, invoking the Samurai spirit, sallied out to engage the patrolling TF The weather cleared in time for the battle, and the huge amount of American air cover meant the approaching Japanese force was spotted long before contact was made, getting 3 search results on TF 5 and 1 on TF4 The American fighters launched the attack with 21 factors on TF5, catching the fleet by surprise -1 on air defense. The air defense is very poor (a 2), shooting down no NAS at all 5 target the BB4 Mutsu, 5 target the BB3 Yamashiro, 4 target the Fuso, 4 target the Hyuga, 3 target CA4 Mutsu (3) 2 hits no effect, still damaged yamashiro (7) 3 hits sunk Fuso (9) 3 hits sunk Hyuga (4) 2 hits, damaged, sunk CA4 (11) 3 hits CA2 sunk, CA2 damaged 10 LBA also striike the TF air defense aborts 1 AAS 6 target the Mutsu, 3 the CA2 Mutsu (8) 4 hits sunk CA2 (4) 1hit sunk the entire TF5 has been destroyed in the crushing Battle of the Coral Sea Japan withdraws TF 4 from combat and retreats to Truk __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-17-08 at 11:39 PM.

11-17-08, 08:31 PM	#5
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	The Gatos strike new torpedoes, greater numbers and revised doctrine mean that the subs finally start to fulfill Roosevelt's instruction that "I want our subs to do to the Japs what the Krauts did to us!" 5 subs sink 4 transports and damage 2 for the loss of 1 sub factor __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill

11-17-08, 08:45 PM	#6
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	The Battle of Coral Sea With his ears still smarting after the dressing down he received for the detsruction of Task Force 5, Admiral Yamamoto senses an opportunity for a counter attack after intelligence analysts informed him that a US Task Force was steaming towards New Georgia with an invasion force He sets a trap with TF 3 and TF1 from Rabual and TF2 from Truk The US patrolling force led by Admiral Nimitz steams in to support the invasion Japanese patrol planes from Rabaul make contact with the US TF6 first to vector in the Japanese forces Japanese have 6 search dice, US 3. Japan rolls 1,1,2,2,3,6, finding all the us groups, revealing the 1st US group has no carriers and the second has 4. US rolls 2,2,6 finding the second Japanese group and revealing it has 4 carriers Japan launches strikes from it's hidden carriers. A strike against US group 2 using 8 eNAS and a strike against US group 3 using 8NAS The strike on Us Group2 gets a level 4 surprise The strike on US group 3 gets a level 2 surprise Attack on group 2 3 eNAS peel off to face 3 defending American NAS at +1 for the Japanese at level 4 surprise, meaning no CAP bonus, -1 air defense, +1 on damage roll, only 2/3 of CAP can fly (=3 out of 4) Japan rolls 7 - a 1/3 result US rolls 7 - a 1-2 result 5 eNAS face the air defenses - level 3 (level3 for fleet +1 for air defense, -1 for surprise) and rolls 9! a 1/3 result abort results from air defense do not stop carrier launched NAS. 4e NAS get through the screen and 2 target the CV3 Hornet rolling an 8 mod 12 (+1 surprise, +1 enAS, +2 vs carrier)=3 hits! 2 eNAS target the CV3 Intrepid, rolling a 7, mod 11, 3 hits! Both carriers are hit badly, the Hornet torpedoed, sinks while being towed back to port the next day, the Intrepid exploding and sinking within minutes of being hit by bombs Strike on group 3 4 NAS face 4 NAS with level 2 surprise meaning the US does not enjoy +1 for CAP, and -1 on air defense Japan rolls 5, a 1/2 US rolls 6, a 1/3 4 NAS face the air defense at level 3, rolling a 7, a 1/1 result 2 NAS get through and target the CV3 Gettysburg at +2 mod rolling a 2! Only 1 hit, so no significant damage Japanese strike from found group 6 NAS fly out to attack 2 NAS engage 2 USNAS +1 mod for US Japan rolls 8 mod 7, a 1/1 result US rolls 4 mod 5, a 1/0 result 5 NAS face the guns at level 4 rolling a 2! a 1/0 result 4 NAS attack the carriers at +2, all 4 targetting the constellation rolling a 7 mod 9, 3 hits! The constellation is damaged and no longer operational! US attack on Japanese Group 2 4 NAS from TF2 face 1 AAS air cover US rolls 4, 0/1, Japan rolls 7, a 1/0 result US 3 NAS face 4 NAS defending at +1 for CAP US rolls 9 mod 8, a 1/3 result Japan rolls 8, mod 9, a 1/3 result Second strike 7 NAS from group 3 face 3NAS at +1 US rolls 8 mod 7, a 1/3 result Japan rolls 4 mod 5, a 1/1 result 5 NAS face the guns of group 2 at level 5 rolling a 7, a 2/1 result 2 NAS close in on the CVL2 Zuiho at +2 mod and roll a 7! mod 9 - 2 hits! The Zuiho is sunk The long guns fire as the two group2s meet US 13 factors, BB5 Montana, two BB4s versus Japan 15 factors, BB5 Musashi and 10 lights All fire concentrated on the BB5s US rolls 8, 4 hits! The Mighty Musashi is damaged Japan rolls 11! 5 hits! The Mighty Montana is sunk! At nightfall, the US decides to withdraw the mission to invade New Georgia, and Admiral Yamamoto will not have to face a court martial after all However the departing US force is intercepted by the two Japanese submarines, but they get brutally crushed by the vengeful US destroyers At the end of the fighting the damage is as follows Japan: CVL2 Zuiho 2 subs 2eNAS 5NAS BB5 Musashi damaged US: CV3 Hornet CV3 Intrepid BB5 Montana 8NAS CVB4 Constellation damaged A complete victory for Japan, but taking in the earlier complete destruction of Japan's Task Force 5, and the rate at which new carriers are being launched in the US, it is not clear who ultimately was the victor in the season's battles __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-19-08 at 04:38 AM.

11-17-08, 09:10 PM	#7
joegrundman Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,689 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Operation Krasny Shtorm In ironic Stalin fashion, the summer offensive for the Red Army seems to have been specifically named to confuse translators and historian, since in translation it is the same as Fuehrer Oberon's Rote Sturm Counterair attacks begin the offensive Breslau airbase is neutralised at a rate of 3 AAF lost for 3 AAF Kolberg is neutralised despite a rate of 2 german AAF lost for 4 Russian in a virt The finnish AAF in Posnan is eliminated for 1 Red AAF Ground attack Using two shock armies and human wave attacks combined with massed armour and the first red army paradrop on L34 behind the Vistula the defense is 14 (because bypass the river using airdrop) the attack is two 3-3, three 4o5, 5o6, 1m3, 4AAF=28 2:1 rolls a 6! A crushing Red army advance obliterates the Wehrmacht defensive position and establishes a bridgehead on the other side of the Vistula In a second but shockingly bloody battle, the Red Army also manages to make a breakthrough near Brest-Litovsk - Russian losses are horrific Exploitation Red Army armoured units push through the gaps to exploit the results of the offensive Warsaw is surrounded and Red Army soldiers are on the border with the Vaterland Here ends the exciting and action packed Summer of 1944 __________________ "Enemy submarines are to be called U-Boats. The term submarine is to be reserved for Allied under water vessels. U-Boats are those dastardly villains who sink our ships, while submarines are those gallant and noble craft which sink theirs." Winston Churchill Last edited by joegrundman; 11-19-08 at 04:40 AM.