Guides and Training

[ReallyDedPoet]

Awesome thread here

[Rockin Robbins]

Thank you RDP. Yours is the praise I value most highly here at Subsim as I rate you consistently the most positive and helpful member here both before and after you became a moderator. Salute!

[Don_D_Dwain]

Hello Yall,
I am sure you guys know this by now, but if not, here goes. There are 2 things I have noticed in SH4.
1) If you are playing the German side, you can access the map, as you would in SH3 by clicking on the map, but only if you put the crew at "battle Stations," then click on the guy standing by the map (yes the navigator), and then point camera at map, and clickon the map. Also each time you zoom in or out of the map, and look at the map, it shows the last level of zoom you were just looking at.

2) Again, the Germans. The G7es (Falke Torpedos) are slow, and were the first homing torpedos. I know you know this, but if you load one or two in the aft tubes, and A destroyer is a bother, get it to chase you from behind. If he is going 12kts or faster (very likely if he saw you), then line him up in the scope, as close to 180 as you can, then that slow homing torpedo works miracles. Good by destroyer. Don't forget to shut off your engines so the torpedo can find its mark easier. Thats it.

3) This is not a trick, but a even though, you guys will probably like it, so enjoy. http://www.uboat.net/gallery/index.html

[Rockin Robbins]

There have been several threads lately about problems with planes in Silent Hunter 4, especially with TMO. These posts are quickly followed by advice on how to cheat and modify the configuration files to minimize or eliminate airplanes. I'm sure that's exactly how Dick O'Kane handled the planes.... Let me flatly state that planes in SH4 and in TMO are not a problem and if you are running your sub properly they cannot ever see you and cannot ever attack you unless you are attacking a convoy at periscope depth and get VERY unlucky.

Planes are not a problem if you handle them right. You don't have to and it isn't helpful to stay submerged all day or even for an hour after sighting one. All that does is discharge your batteries so you aren't combat ready.

Remember, a submarine is a surface boat with the unique ability to submerge when absolutely necessary, and to stay submerged for the absolute minimum amount of time. With airplanes, that means about 10 minutes total per plane. Our goal is to travel at maximum fuel economy speed, 9 knots, on the surface so we have 100% charged batteries available to fight at all times.

Let me explain. First of all, this strategy needs air search radar, a pretty common thing on American submarines. When a plane is first spotted on radar, you have several minutes of decision time. Let's use them! A couple of planes just showed up. What are they up to?

I immediately draw a 5 mile radius circle around my sub. That's my danger zone. If the planes enter that zone, they can possibly see me. My goal is never to be seen by a plane, EVER. That means no John Wayne popgun ineffectually giving away my position so the pilot can call his good buddies to the party and I'm swarmed for several days. I'm not going there. If a plane can possibly see me I'm pulling the plug.

OK, we have the visibility danger circle around the sub. Now, from the position of the plane, draw two lines from the plane(s) to both outsides of the circle (tangent lines).


Not every plane is going to enter your danger zone. If it does not we want to stay on the surface. 100% battery charge at all times you know... With our "ice cream cone" chart, we can easily tell with plenty of time whether this bad guy is going to be a problem. If he stays outside the cone, we're golden. If he crosses the line to the inside it's time to initiate avoidance.

At that point our goal is to be at or below periscope depth when he crosses the circle line of our danger zone. Pick a number below 100', I always just use about 110, your mileage may differ but I haven't had a problem with that and full-blown TMO. As you cross periscope depth, start your stopwatch. When it reaches 5 minutes, press surface ("s"). Do not dawdle around at periscope depth looking for planes. He's gone. No buddies not previously spotted on radar have had time to enter your danger zone. Your combat awareness is 100%. You are safe. Just get up there and resume surface travel.

You haven't been spotted. No little flyboy buddies will be checking you out. Also, I run around at best fuel economy, about 9 knots all the time. during my plane avoidance drill I don't touch the throttle. I submerge normally, none of this crash dive silliness, because you have plenty of time. Have you ever crash dived, surfaced and reentered time compression not remembering you were at full throttle? It'll make you cranky! Don't do it. Following my procedure it can never happen.

Planes are not an issue in TMO. They are not a threat. They cannot ever see you. The only thing that can hold you down is an escort. And if you didn't follow my airplane avoidance strategy, you're not ready for them because you have low batteries. You're a dead duck. Why would you care whether you were killed by a plane or by an escort. Wouldn't you rather not be killed by either?

[BillBam]

Good advise RR, I remember seeing this same advise in one of your videos and have "never" had a problem with airplanes in TMO by following this advise. One problem I had early in my careers was cruising at too high of a TC rate and allowing the planes to get inside that 5 mile circle before TC reset to normal, not allowing enough time to know what was happening and get to below 100'.

One other problem I had early was not going to 100'+ and allowing the planes to see me at periscope depth, planes do see you so get deep. But don't waste time going to 450' it is a waste of time, 100+ works just as well and saves time on going down and up.

[Rockin Robbins]

In plane infested areas, I'm usually cruising around at TC about 500 to 1000x. When a plane is sighted, I step it down to 8 or 16x while I figure out where he's headed. I'll step it down to 8x if he's approaching the danger radius, leave it at 16x if he's going to pass harmlessly by and leave it there until he's at least 10 miles off, going away. Then I resume 500 to 1000x.

If I have to dive I leave it at 8x, hit the dive key (not crash dive) in time to be at or below periscope depth as he crosses the line, start the stopwatch, step up to 16x until 5 minutes are up, hit "s" to surface and after I'm surfaced I'll go back to 500 or 1000x.

[Admiral8Q]

Originally Posted by BillBam

One problem I had early in my careers was cruising at too high of a TC rate and allowing the planes to get inside that 5 mile circle before TC reset to normal, not allowing enough time to know what was happening and get to below 100'.

What would the optimal TC rate be then to get the most TC, with the best time for it to switch back to normal?

[BillBam]

I have never had a problem at 1k TC, at 1.5k TC you better be quick to the keyboard to get down, after that it is a crap shoot.

[Admiral8Q]

Probably between 128 and 1k then

I'm going with 128 TC max on my way to recon Osaka.

[Rockin Robbins]

Hey guys! I was innocently stalking another thread on authentic methods of speed measurement in a pre-radar submarine. Someone popped up with the time the length across the wire method, which for some reason is very popular on Subsim. I'm afraid I blasted that great method as completely historically bogus.

So we talked about using bow wave and then stern wave to estimate speed. That works well, and in the game it's very reliable with experience. It was also used during the war.

But I was looking for a more analytical method, because that's my personal character defect , and ended up looking through the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual from 1946 (link later). It was so great that it belongs here in your bag of tricks! It's amazing what happens when you look at what the real submariners did. There sure weren't stupid!

However, the stern wave is tremendously influenced by the hull shape, and of course there is a wide variety of hull shapes. You can also judge speed by the spacing between the bow wave and the quarter wave, which is further away from the bow wave with increasing speed.

Of all the methods, however, the bow wave is the most uniform between different ships.

Now this is all about the real thing and I don't know how closely the game reflects reality in this area.

Now here's an even better method stolen from the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual of 1946. It relies only on achieving a collision course with your target. This can be done at just about any own speed, and even submerged if need be. How do you know you are on a collision course? Your target's bearing doesn't change with time. Your target is traveling from right to left. So let's say you take a target bearing of 15 degrees. Two minutes later it's 20 degrees (sorry, the alt-0186 shortcut for the degree sign doesn't work in Linux and I don't want to chase down the equivalent right now.). This means that the target is lagging behind. Either change course slightly toward the target or slow down. Take another measurement two minutes later. If you're still at 20 degrees, you have achieved a collision course. Make minute adjustments over time until you hold the same bearing for over three minutes. Collision course achieved! It's chart time:



All right, in official Navy terms Ab is angle on the bow. You understand that. LA is the lead angle, that's the angle between the bearing line to the target and your bow. S sub T is target speed and S sub O is Own Speed. These abbreviations are used uniformly throughout official submarine attack procedures. So, reading the formula there, Target Speed equals your own speed times the sine of the lead angle divided by the sin of the angle on the bow. The real guys would work that out in seconds on a slide rule, so you may authentically use a calculator.

Now you have with perfect authenticity calculated the speed and can derive the exact course of your adversary. Is it too much for some game players? Sure it is. Is it possible to do within the game? Absolutely. It's what I will do next time I'm caught in a boat without radar! If I can. The eyeball methods are better for quickly developing situations where you either shoot quickly or not at all. Guess this post ends up in the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread now...


And as a bonus, I found something else. You can put your target abeam and eyeball a relatively parallel course, right? You don't have to be accurate: 25 degrees off one way or another still yields pretty good results. Some idea of range is necessary too. But for what it's worth:


OK, that means that you're on a parallel course with your target. Your courses are the same, but of course, your speeds are different. We'll just say he's a mile, 2000 yards, away. Taking a series of bearings, his bearing is decreasing, he's falling back of 2 degrees per minute and you're going 10 knots. So he's traveling two knots slower than you are! Peg that guy at 8 knots.

Now get on a collision course and do the other calc. This will confirm and give you a reliable range at the same time when you diagram it out at the plotting table!

[WarlordATF]

Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins

There have been several threads lately about problems with planes in Silent Hunter 4, especially with TMO. These posts are quickly followed by advice on how to cheat and modify the configuration files to minimize or eliminate airplanes. I'm sure that's exactly how Dick O'Kane handled the planes....

IMO the planes in SH4 are handled very unrealisticly, patrol aircraft flying maximum duration was the exception not the rule in real life, especially later in the war when fuel became a concern for the Japs. Fuel aside, patrols would rarely fly that far because of the wear and tear on the aircraft. Just because a plane could fly x amount of miles does not mean they did so on a regular basis.

With Sh4 its all or nothing, you have one airstrike.cfg defining maximum range which would vary greatly depending on the aircraft type in the real world. So there really isn't a realistic way to set the game up. If you give them the long range of some of the larger patrol aircraft then planes like the Zero (who don't have drop tanks in the game) behave unrealisticly, give them the shorter range and others are not performing right. You really can't win.

Please don't misunderstand this post as confrontational, i just wanted to explain why i answered the question that was asked and why i see no issue of "Cheating" by modifying the config files that cannot be realistic in the first place.

EDIT: I just checked that post, It didn't ask how to edit the game. The OP was going to give up on TMO Because of the planes and i offered the information as a way to help. My Mistake.

[Rockin Robbins]

Lol! It doesn't matter if the planes are realistic or not in SH4 with any mod configuration. They are not dangerous, cannot see you and cannot hurt you unless they get VERY VERY lucky if you follow my strategy.

The only weakness in my strategy is if you are engaged in a prolonged submerged approach to a target, you have lost situational awareness of the air and a plane accidentally spots you submerged. What can I say? War ain't totally safe.

[rein1705]

OR... if you're commanding the Narwhale.... you'll barely have time to get under. Hope you're a pretty fare hand with an AA gun.

[Rockin Robbins]

In that case you submerge when the plane is further away. When in frequently trafficked areas, running with decks awash would be a fuel consuming but smart tactic. Same deal though. You fight with planes and you're a loser. Either you shoot down cheap, easy to replace planes with your expensive, difficult to replace submarine (and are a chump for it) or a cheap, easy to replace airplane sinks an expensive, difficult to replace submarine (killing over 60 highly trained and difficult to replace men) and the sake flows freely tonight. Heads they win, tails you lose. That's not a good game to play.

Fight your battle, not theirs. YOU choose the game. Then it's heads you win, tails THEY lose. Never fight a fair fight. You have too much to lose.

Very nice sugar boat shot you have there!

[rein1705]

Thank you very much. And your advice has been priceless to me in the past. I was just pointing out that early in the war and even with the better air radar theres not a lot of warning time to dive the Narwhale if there headed directly in your path. i should have been a little more detaled maybe. I pretty much follow your tactics and only dive when i need to, run around 8-9 knots most the time and utilize my heavy guns when its safe enough.
Currently playing as the Narwhale Nov 42 out of Perth.